Date:         Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:39:03 -0700
Reply-To:     dkspence@TELUS.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Don Spence <dkspence@TELUS.NET>
Subject:      Vanagon List Moderator-let's get things underway!
In-Reply-To:  <19740414223344.1E762604392F06B3@priv-edmwaa11.telusplanet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

you have my vote too Joel

Hate to see your poetry be banned!!


On 16-Jan-09, at 1:28 PM, Automatic digest processor wrote:

> joel walker wrote:
>>>> Some things need cleaning up, but mostly I would like to see the
>>>> [NVC]
>>>> become standard fair for off topic subjects. And to see Frydaye
>>>> Follies
>>>> become a permanent part of the scene.
>>>
>>> Some people will leave if this is done.  Already, when people first
>>> sign up,
>>> they are often overwhelmed by the volume of mail and back out.  If
>>> half of
>>> that mail is not even about vanagons, it will be that much worse.
>>
>> i strongly disagree.
>>
>> from the onset, the vanagon list has always been much more than
>> just a
>> tech list ..
>>
>> it's been a small cul-de-sac community of people. and people don't
>> always sit around, talking over coffee and beer, about tech things.
>> and some 'tech things' aren't really tech things ... do you like the
>> look of the round headlights versus the 86-91 rectangular ones? South
>> African headlights versus the other two types? are white-wall tires
>> really only for old american cars?  which beer goes best after
>> repacking your cv joints? :)
>>
>> the volume of mail is usually set off by differences in opinions
>> about
>> some subject, which often IS more techie than not ... like tires,
>> heat, rust, and headlights ... and by "oh, that happened to me, too!"
>> stories. all of which is vital to a community ... if we don't share
>> stories and i-did-that-this-way opinions, then it might as well be
>> every man/woman for themselves ..the human 'community' got ahead by
>> HELPING each other, not by hiding secrets from the rest of the
>> community. competition helps, too ... so we have more than one list
>> vendor to take care of that end ... you can buy parts from several
>> different places, even in canada! and germany, and belgium.
>> nobody in
>> england or mexico yet, though. :(
>>
>> the Frydaye Follies are sort of a release valve for the rest of the
>> week ... like Friday afternoons or "casual fridays" at work ...
>> getting together at the nearby pub/bar/whatever for a beer with your
>> co-workers after a long week of putting up with the boss (in our
>> case,
>> a much-discussed administrator/moderator) ... a day when tech talk
>> doesn't have to be so high on the must-do list.
>>
>> in other words, the list is a sort of reflection of our work lives
>> and
>> our personal lives .. not just some committee meeting where technical
>> schedules and difficulties are hashed out or put off til "the next
>> meeting tomorrow at 2 o'clock".
>>
>> and i think this is a good thing. that this is the way it should be.
>> it certainly worked well way back when, in the beginnings of the
>> list,
>> when most of us Vanagon owners needed a lot more than tech
>> help ... we
>> needed a support group, a clan to tell us that we weren't stupid and
>> crazy for owning and loving these buses ... that it wasn't totally
>> illogical and we could show the wife/whatever that there WERE other
>> people out there and they were like me, and this is a good car and we
>> ought to keep it.
>>
>> people don't always see the future the same way, even when they
>> espouse the same ideals, or drive the same cars, or even live in the
>> same community ... and it takes discussion to work it out so we can
>> ALL be comfortable and secure and not worry about our sanity and
>> safety ... and this is most definitely NON-technical, at least not
>> technical about volkswagen vanagons. :)
>>
>> this is why i must strongly put in my own personal protest at making
>> THIS list a totally tech list, without any regard for the community
>> conversations most of us have enjoyed throughout the years. we've
>> developed friendships (albetit over email, but some of us have
>> actually MET other vanagon owners in person), and i don't think you
>> get much of that spread around the community if you go tech-only.
>> i've
>> seen this happen on other lists, particularly the Type2 list, and i
>> don't like it ... it reminds me waay to much of those tech committe
>> meetings ... yes, they are necessary. yes, they contribute to the
>> running of the world we work in and live in. but no ... they should
>> NOT be the end-all be-all to life or this list.
>>
>>> So it seems kind of unfair to abuse their place on this list
>>> by sending them things they really didn't ask for.
>>
>> so how unfair is it to abuse the non-tech folks who did sign up for
>> 'support group' type discussions ... and just generally to hang
>> around
>> with other folks driving the same type of car, and to gain
>> ammunition/information to use against the wife to keep the bus in the
>> family ... with all the high-tech .blather??
>> do we really care about the 930 cv joints or putting a tiico or
>> bostig
>> engine in some bus to gain horsepower and bragging rights? the great
>> majority of the list members will never have the money nor the
>> mechanical expertise nor even a local mechanic able to comprehend
>> such
>> technical jobs ... for us, it's just coffee-table magazines and
>> books,
>> like the picture books of Porsche 911s and Ferarris and Aston Martins
>> ... and Playboys: just window dressing; pipe dreams; something to
>> peer
>> at through the dust of our dreary day-to-day lives. ;)
>>
>> and that's ok ... for those of us who actually do have the garage and
>> money and tools and mental agility to do such things, great .. go for
>> it! the rest of us will live our dull hum-drum lives vicariously
>> through you, just like we do with Richard Jones's trips through the
>> Rockiesk, and Frank Condelli's many trips from Canada to Mexico, and
>> all the other road trips we see not nearly enough of to suit me. ;)
>> are road trips to be banned from the list? they aren't technical at
>> all! all subjective and opinionated.
>>
>> and i think very very necessary. if your neighbor goes off on
>> vacation, and doesn't come over to harange you with tales of how bad
>> it was in Orlando with all the 'tourists' trying to get to Disney
>> World, a lot of us would feel a bit hurt ... it's kinda fun to watch
>> someone try and cram a week of insanity with wife, kids, dogs, cars,
>> traffic, hotels, restaurants, and all the other things that go with a
>> 'road trip' into a few minutes of conversation ... at least, i enjoy
>> it. and i think a lot of others on the list do, too. :)
>>
>> that's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
>>
>> unca joel
>>
>>
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