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Date:         Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:49 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Need AFM adapter so different aircleaner or cold air intake
              can be used- to cone or no!
Comments: To: frankgrun@AOL.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

re your apology at the end Frank............. no, no, no.........let her frickin' rip man !! it's always great to see how your mind works.......... and what you produce...........and going to such technical lengths as to calculate wind chill factor for air intake temps at higher speeds...........for example. Awesome..........keep it up ! very inspirational. where you been ? Scott www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Grunthaner" <frankgrun@AOL.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Need AFM adapter so different aircleaner or cold air intake can be used- to cone or no!

> I was cooling my typing finger in a viscous amino acid solution over > excessive use on the Moderator discussion when I saw David's comment about > cone air filters. I had to interject that in all my conversions, I > immediately went to the highest surface area K&N filter I could find, > complete with the rectangular to round adapter plate. I use an elliptical > cross-section that is easily removed and oiled/cleaned through the drivers > side brake light port. However, David is also correct about the need for > cold air to recover performance losses apparent when first installing the > K&N in the hot engine compartment. My general solution to this was to > mount the air filter in the driver's side compartment and then to seal off > that compartment so that the side air scoop provides all the cool air > needed. The sealing operation was trivial in that I use a piece of > neoprene or viton (approximately 0.125 inches thick) cut to fit the space > and held in place at the top and forward cabin sides by 0.5 inch metal > strips fastened to the body with sheet metal screws. On the bottom, I cut > the viton/neoprene sheet such that it extended 2 or 3 inches below the > base of the compartment. This permitted an over-pressure blow off if > necessary. This approach greatly reduced the intake roar for the Digifant > and Audi engines as heard in the interior of the Westfalia. It did lead to > some very surprised looks on the part of motorcyclists stopped at traffic > lights on the driver's side when I inadvertently blipped the throttle. > Probably due to the angry growl at ear level emitted through the vent > intake. My intake air temperature measurements, initially taken at the > inlet to the intake manifold, always gave the temperature of the ambient > outside air or less. I say or less, because there was significant > temperature lowering at speeds above 45 mph. By 80 mph, I recorded wing > chill of up to 8 degrees Fahrenheit. This relative to the interior > temperature measured underneath the dash > > However, when I did the Audi 2.0L Turbo conversion and then the 1Z/AFN TDi > conversions, I realized that I needed an intercooler system as well as an > external oil cooler capability. Consequently (as described in the > archives), I modified the driver's side air inlet compartment by cutting a > large hole in the botton. I then mounted a Dawoo radiator fan in a push > configuration, driving air through the Saab intercooler mounted on the > underside of the fan and below the compartment. I then built an Aluminum > shield to stop mud flow from the rear wheel and provided an air discharge > port to the direct rear of the Vanagon. This actually had no impact on the > mounting of the air cleaner and no significant impact on the > neoprene/viton compartment seal. All that I did there was to close off the > bottom buth an additional metal strip fastened to the body with more sheet > metal screws. Probably not necessary. I have reported in the archives my > measurements of pressure drops in the vent compartment with and without > the Dawoo fan activated. This lead me to trigger the fan based on measured > intercooler air temperatures. The battery or passenger side has a similar > setup with external oil coolers from the Audi 5000T, but I mounted the fan > in a pull geometry so as not to interfere with my dual battery setup. > > Apologies for the technical nature of this post to those on the list who > tolerate this sort of thing, but I couldn't resist. > > Frank Grunthaner > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Marshall <mailinglist@FASTFORWARD.CA> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Sent: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 1:03 pm > Subject: Re: Need AFM adapter so different aircleaner or cold air intake > can be used > > > > > > > > > > > Personally I wouldn't install a cone style filter.? Part of the > reason for the air box is provide cleaner COOLER air from elsewhere.? > The engine compartment is dirty and wet and a cone filter will not protect > you from a good water splash and it will get dirtier faster with all the > road crap being kicked up.? Also, the cooler the air is there more > air there is at a given volume.? As we are running a AFM and not a > MAF there is no way for the system to tell how dense the air is - so yeah > the CARB guys and other people who do that kind of checking won't be happy > - even though technically the O2 sensor should look after this by leanin > gout the mixture which means you will loose power with warm air too.? > They also act as a muffler - step on it and your 2.1 will growl loudly - > yeah teenager cool sound, but really... > > Just one of many > reasons why I don't run cone filters that are out side of an air box. > > David Marshall > VW Adventure Driver and BMW Adventure Rider > > http://www.hasenwerk.ca > > On Mon, January 19, 2009 > 12:13, David Kao wrote: >> >> Will that mod causes > attention to smog technicians when you >> bring your Vanagon in for > a smog check? Every time I did a >> smog check they seemed to do > all they could to see if anything >> is modified from the original. > I am talking about California. >> I think it may be OK else > where. >> >> I have wanted to get rid of that air box too. > I can no longer >> find air filters locally for Vanagons. Perhaps a > better solution >> is to get air filter available then modify the > filter to fit. >> It should be fairly easy to do than modifying to > use a different >> air filter box. >> >> David >>


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