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Date:         Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:07:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bear Attacks Camper NVC
Comments: To: mtbiker62@COMCAST.NET
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
              reply-type=original

oh this is great NVC ! how I camp in places out in the boonies..... if I can't get so tucked back in that it's highly unlikely that someone would find me anyway........ If I have to camp like it sounds like you were there........ I keep the van pointed 'out' ..........in the direction of escape, back down the road, and toward anyone that would be coming up the road. I make darn sure I know where the ignition key is.......and if anyone does approach, I jump up and turn on the headlights first thing, like when they are a half mile away or whatever.........this way they know someone is there...........that they've been spotted........and might even keep them from running into you. And if things look bad, you're in a better situation to take off, IF that seems like the best strategy.

about 'protection' ............I 'suppose' having might be better than not having. but..........I would want to use that as an extreme last resort..........even revealing that I have that sort of protection could trigger the maniac is drunk a-holes/ rednecks. My concern is I say, shoot a warning shot in the air.............they will see that as war ........... and idiots don't seem to have self-preservation ( notice it's almost ALWAYS males......no body seems to make that distinction......... 97 % of all war and crime is male - generated ) ..............but my concern is they.......oh run back to town, get 5 guns and buddies........ and they sure don't seem to worry about going to jail...........that's how stupid the common male ego is.........

it's the same with bears. ..about guns. Traditionally some have believed that humans with guns act more arrogant, and that bears can sense this. If you go into wild bear country without a weapon..........you act differently. it's more spiritual, you seek to be part of nature, not seeking to dominate over it..........you're smarter about your food, about what you just 'stumble into' ...... like a bear with a kill........you're just more careful and smart, and tuned in.

same way with yahoos.......... my personal plan if anyone ever breaks in on me to whatever........rob me, is welcome them and offer them a glass of wine and tell them I am SO GLAD someone showed up ! ...... 'not triggering' the impulse.............that bears and stupid males have........the impulse to be violent and irresponsible....... that angle can be worked to great advantage. And in my book............'who slips away safely' is the winner. Coyote is my spirit animal in that regard....and some others. too. but when you try to oppose force with force......... you better have 5 times as much force as they do........or it could be really bad news. and thinking a hand gun or rifle is going to give you that..... sure against an animal or an unarmed human, but you piss off an idiot......and you could be in big trouble. Having a gun is not any kind of guarantee....... it can help in SOME circumstances. in other circumstance, merely having one can make things much, much worse. And using one........that opens up a whole can of worms.....if you use it on a human. You'd best be sure it's truly self-defense, you have the advantage for sure...... and that you don't just wound them...........either way.......it's a whole can of worms. A hiker shot a homeless man who charged at him in a national forest, and killed him, in Arizona. The DA tried to make the case that since he was carrying a 9mm Glcok with hollow point bullets, is intent was to kill someone........I think he finally got through the deal and not in jail........ but a gun brings it's own special set of complications and responsibilities with it. I'd rather try to sneak away, or befriend them, or trick them somehow. Actually 'using force' is for the dumber and less educated, in my opinion........ it takes intelligence, cleverness, even sneakiness to 'win' without using overt force...........and I personally believe is ultimately a safer choice. I did love how that woman in Berkeley didn't give up her Syncro Vanagon to the car jacker guy with a gun too........ she used 'fiestiness' on him, not brute force. She grabbed the guys gun, struggled with him over it a bit.and said 'I'm gong to blow your balls off if you don't leave right now' .,.............. and the guy took off. And that was proper action without having a gun of your own around. Right on. Could have turned out completely differently if she though she had to go get her gun or whatever out of the van. And some places........it's not even legal to have a hidden gun, especially a handgun.........overall.......I lean toward not having one as the better overall deal. and there are massive exceptions to that of course ! what fun. when am I going to get my hands on that engine in my shop !! ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Stevens" <mtbiker62@COMCAST.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Bear Attacks Camper NVC

>I guess I feel compelled to chime in related to my own infrequent >experiences with bears and people who act worse than any animals I've come >across. > > Camping 12 miles out at the end of a dead end road in Ketcham, ID a few > years ago. 0230 someone in a large pick up truck pulls up in front of my > van, where I had been asleep and begins honking and flashing brights .... > this does NOT feel safe or hospitable and I'm left wondering where it > will go next. "Feels" like some intoxicated folks thinking who knows what > and want some action. The night before I had arrived in the area and came > across 2 black bears that were doing their best to avoid us onlookers > (maybe 4 of us on a dirt road, same time, same place). All in all I felt > compelled to arrange for protection and now have that. What it is doesn't > matter but is of the usual variety. I was the only one camping out near > the end of this road. > > I feel much safer now but also feel more confident I can "reason" with > fauna more effectively and reasonably than homo sapiens acting badly. > > Bob Stevens > '87 Syncro Westy


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