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Date:         Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:42:05 -0800
Reply-To:     Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: VW bus and beetle on Yahoo's 10 deadlies car list. Any
              thruth? Bay vs. Vanagon
Comments: To: frankgrun@aol.com
In-Reply-To:  <8CB5DBAC949FCD0-1118-1E43@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear proud owners with knowledge the writer of this piece of drivel is so unresearched he doesnt even refer to his own work for reference

http://autos.aol.com/article/general...30133009990001<http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/best-car-names/20081230133009990001>

this article goes to top 10 cars and the very porche he decries as a death trap he lists as the # 9 car to own he is not a person who deserves any discussion -- sadly -- he will continue to exist on the web as a source of information...

i have already sent his outfit a note telling him and them he is a not knowing kind of guy -- yours

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Frank Grunthaner <frankgrun@aol.com>wrote:

> This typical media ill informed regurgitation of popularly accepted wisdom > does contain a kernel of truth. The attack on the beetle and the bay is not > totally unfounded. The splittie and the bay designs had little if any > frontal impact protection. The rear swing axle designs of the beetle, bay > and splittie all offered problems for the inexperienced or ignorant driver, > as did the Corvair and many contemporary european designs. The Renault > Dauphine and various Fiat rear engine designs come to mind readily. The high > center of gravity in the bay and design exaggerated the roll under rear tire > problem. The splitty couldn't go fast enough in stock form to be rollover > prone, so safety was achieved through moderate performance. > > I came to appreciate the drivelive geometry limitations when I built a 178 > HP at the wheels version of the corvair engine and 4 speed transaxle and > installed same in my Safare Bay Window Camper. Fortunately after the > adrenaline rush, my experiences racing Porsches at Riverside and Willow Glen > helped save my bacon. At speeds above 70 mph, steering could only be > described as tacking. Accelerating from 70 to pass completely changed the > front steering characteristics as the front of the bus would rise and > seriously capture air nearly lifting the front tires. I retired that > experiment quickly. Purchased a Peugeot 504 Diesel Wagon for the family > after being treated to a design session at the factory and spending two days > watching their high speed frontal crash tests. The car was built to transfer > as much of the net crush energy to the other offending vehicle as physically > and economically feasible. Superb safety design. > > As noted by Martin (Poppie?) Jagersand, the T3 or vanagon is actually a > very safe design for a forward control vehicle as demonstrated in the > technical paper on the safety design of the Vanagon in the files I have > alluded to previously on Alistair's site. Note that the figures and the > abstract are in English! The VW approach and that of the 504 come from the > same school of tank design. > > Frank Grunthaner > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Snow <slowmachine82@GMAIL.COM> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Sent: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 8:17 am > Subject: Re: VW bus and beetle on Yahoo's 10 deadlies car list. Any thruth? > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Poppie Jagersand wrote:? > ? > > > Both the VW bus and beetle are nr 10 and 4 respectively on the? > > > deadliest car list, prominently flashed on Yahoo's Canadian home page? > > > this morning. (maybe time to switch email provider?)? > > >? > > > http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1145/deadliest-car-designs? > > >? > > > Is there any objective truth to this? I once saw an article that? > > > despite the obvious challenges in making a forward cab vehicle safe? > > > in head on collisions, the T3 bus/vanagon is in fact one of the least? > > > accident prone vehicles in the insurance statistics. Obviously? > > > accidents are caused by vehicle plus driver. (The no 6, Corvette,? > > > on the list might have been safer if marketed as an "Oldsmobile" to? > > > that segment of GM customers.)? > > >? > > > My guess is that the list is a product of a clueless journalist? > > > who did little real research. If someone can find true statistics? > > > on vehicle models and deaths and then enough of us email Yahoo,? > > > with these facts maybe they would feel compelled to up their quality? > > > of journalism?? > > >? > > > Martin? > > >? > ? > > The original article is from askmen.com, and received boatloads of? > > negative comments questioning research methods and data. Must have? > > been a slow news day.? > ? > > http://www.askmen.com/top_10/cars/top-10-deadliest-car-designs.html? >

-- roger w From Proverbs: Under three things the earth trembles, under four it cannot bear up: a servant who becomes king ... ---------------------------------------------------------- Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/ View the growing list of video work at: http://revver.com/find/video/?query=LastonLastof&search_on=owners and ... older work at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7135104650374818257 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3259745150182742364


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