Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:12:41 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Replacing FI with Carbs on WBX 2.1L
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oh man, don't even get me started about crazy modern stuff like touch
screens in cars.
Any idea what a hazardous distraction that can be if doing it while also
driving !?
I have this 'modern' Sony radio..........tries to look like a video game I
guess. it 'used to be'.........you had a nice digital display of the station
you were on, one knob to turn for on/off and volume, one knob to turn to
dial stations............
and one button to flip from AM to FM.
I would pay twice the price for a simple radio like that. With this Sony I
mentioned........it's a 5 step hassle of holding buttons and reading a crazy
display ........to do anything. A serious distraction from driving if you
don't have a co-pilot.
so yes, electronics have totally gotten of control. Now Toyota has some
model cars that can send you an voice message while you're driving.
.....service advisements, or deals on service I imagine...........no thank
you !
your injection pump on that car needs a 12 volt signal I believe.
Before they had the 5 cylinder 300D ........there was the 240D four
cylinder.........
in the 1970 to 1975 Chassis............that engine had an actual control
cable to the injection pump, both to turn it on, and to shut the engine
down.
In a most old fashioned way, pulling that cable knob out also activated the
glow plugs.......
and get this...........this is how crude and basic that system is..........
the glow plugs are in series, the four of them in the engine, and a 5th
'glow thing' in the dash, right in front of the driver.
Looks like a salt shaker, and has a 'toaster element ' it in.
So you get to *actually see* how glowing the glow plugs are !
and no electrics to the IP either .........just mechanical on/off.
I had a 75 240D ..........the last year of that chassis, and very related to
my 1970 250 gas inline six carbed Benz, 'Ursula'
I got that 240 D cause the PO drove the timing chain until it was so
stretched..........
it jumped time, and when the valves hit the pistons ..........instead of
trashing valves, head, or pistons...........it broke off the 3 cam towers
the cam runs in..........it would still crank over just fine. In a vw diesel
of course, you're looking at a new head at least.
And............after I got that engine fixed in that Mercedes.........cast
iron head, a forest of cylinder head studs..........
if that engine is fully up to spec...............good timing chain, good
compression, injection pump and timing right..........there is just *no way*
it can fail to operate for a long, long time.
The only think I can imagine is a coolant hose failing, or just neglect and
unawareness causing overheating .......
man if there is oil in it, and a mostly decent cooling
system............'almost' .........nothing can go wrong. Severely overbuilt
engine.
It's solidly built the timing chain isn't even on the front of the
block.........
it's within the cast iron block. I don't know if the 5 cylinder is that way
or not. I suspect not. .......
but your 300D - same thing...........overbuilt to the max. Wish VW was
have that well made. We wouldn't have that much to talk to each other about
if that was the case ~! lol.
All I've ever done to learn how to work on anything.........say EFI.......is
get a book on it,
ask lots of questions, and especially, get a set of spare parts like ECU and
sensors out of a pick n pull junkyard for cheap..........
verify they are ok on the engine when I get the.........
between those 3 things..........it's not to hard to get on top of EFI.
that's all any tdi-conversion vanagon person has done..........just start
learning and figure that stuff out, or hire someone to do it.
It's a steep learning curve for a while.........but feeling like you
understand or can work on a system like EFI isn't really that
hard.........some determination involved perhaps.
I had some serious fun with carbs recently........last comment this post
................Porsche 914-6 I did a bunch of work on........including
rescuing it from being dead, water in the carbs, fuel leaking off one of the
carbs, etc.........interesting carb set up. Six cylinder engine, two 3
barrel carbs, with two float bowls in each carb. One throttle plate per
cylinder ..........you don't see that too often. That was fun.
And that particular car..................no choke, of any kind.
No mixture enrichment for cold starting, at all. You had to pump the gas to
pump fuel in via the accelerator jets, then fire it off with that fuel, and
catch it with more pumps right away. After 30 seconds of that you could
pull out the manual throttle cable and get to a high cold idle of about
1,700 rpm,. Most definitely crude.
But ................brilliantly, it also has a spark ignition
system..............so it doesn't have to depend on engine condition itself
to be able to run well. I know a 300D engine will run for ...........decades
even. Even if no one never checks the valve clearances. Super made well
engine, and car.
The Porsche 914-6 .....while exciting and very valuable as a
collectible.......is junk really, compared to your Benz.......actually a
very, very evolved and glorified vw bug. Fun though ! Those float valves
in the 914-6 had a tendency to stick shut.......
and when you shut it off, the float valves are fully closed..........then
one or two of the four float valves like to stick shut ......
nothing like that in EFI !
And now the current version of your car has full electronic controls on it.
I can imagine some of the repair bills on those after a number of years !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Streib" <streib@cs.indiana.edu>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Replacing FI with Carbs on WBX 2.1L
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> writes:
>
>> Good electronic fuel injection just can not be beat ........for cold
>> drivability, emissions, good drivability etc. A carb is always a crude
>> and
>> mechanical compromise device. Electronics trump mechanics every time. You
>> can see it throughout automotive development - electronic ignition
>> replacing points, distrbutorless ignition systems replaceing ones with
>> distrubutors , etc. etc.
>
> Agree, but also sometimes things are made more complicated by
> electronics "just because they can do it". E.g. touch-screen controls
> in newer cars.
>
> The most reliable, trouble free engine in any car I've ever owned is the
> totally *mechanical* OM617 in my Mercedes 300D. Well the glow plugs are
> electric, I guess, if you want to get picky. But once it's running all
> it needs is fuel. No electricity at all.
>
> Carbureted engines can't compete with a working EFI system I agree, but
> for the "shade tree" mechanic I think they are easier to work with.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1991 Vanagon GL
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