Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:52:42 -0500
Reply-To: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
In-Reply-To: <05d701c99f85$9abd6520$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
My 1.9 vanagon has most recently been only getting to a temperature where
the needle on the guage is about a half a needle's width below the LED. In
the fall it would run perfectly right over the LED but now it's
substantially cooler. It puts out heat just fine, but takes a while to get
the needle moving and then only goes to that point.
I'm guessing i need a new thermostat, but my thermostat is only a year old.
There might be some air in the system (though very little). I doubt that
could have anything to do with it though.....
Do you guys reccomend a particular thermostat or course of action? Dealer
thermostat?
-Craig
'85GL turned WESTY
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> re
> "the other subtle difference is that the Subaru system mixes air to
> control
> the temperature in the
>
>> mixing / distribution box'
>>
>
> Sorry...........I don't believe that's true, not even a little.
> It is true that Subaru, almost uniquely I believe, uses full time heater
> circuit flow . But nowhere is air mixed into the heater circuit.
> That's a quite bizarre statement - maybe that's not what was actually
> meant.
> .
> On most cars, and vanagons, when you close the heater valve/s.......there
> is no, or very minimal coolant flow in the circuit...........and thermostat
> sensing takes place from the main coolant in the engine. Whether heater is
> in use or not, the thermostat reacts to main circuit coolant.
>
> Subaru has their thermostat sensing .............what coolant the t-stat
> sees and reacts too.................from the heater circuit, so they need
> full time heater circuit flow, winter and summer.
> Only brand of car that does it that way, far as I know. That needs to be
> accommodated in Subaru-vanagon engine conversions of course.
>
> Many more mdoern cars have their thermostats mounted on the bottom of the
> engine, in the return side of the main circuit. Subaru does.
> So do all inline four gas and dissel VW rabbit/golf/jetta engines, starting
> in about 1975, and continued still, over 30 years later, in modern FWD 4
> cylinder VW engines.
> Can't see how it's 'better protected from the elements" though...........
> it's closer to the road and yuck from the road.
>
> the guage sensors are in about the same or comprable place on the 2
> engines.
> In the subaru it's in the water manifold...........
> a cast aluminum pipe across the top of the engine, joining the two heads,
> and under the intake manifold. The waterboxer vanagon engine has no part
> thing of course.
> The vanagon guage sensor is located right near the water pump
> ............that single contact temp sensor there. If you have AC, it's
> hard
> to see under the compressor. If no AC.......you can look right in there and
> see it plane as day.
> Scott
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> - Show quoted text -
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>
>
> Interesting! And were is the Subaru's temp gauge sender located in
>> relation to the 1.9l's? Is one is a better spot to more quickly "see"
>> the rise in engine temp?
>>
>> --
>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>> Bend, OR
>> KG6RCR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2009 8:16 AM David Milo wrote:
>>
>>> Aside from the length of the hoses, the other subtle difference is
>>> that the Subaru system mixes air to control the temperature in the
>>> mixing / distribution box, whereas the Vanagon was designed to use a
>>> manually controlled coolant modulating valve (yes, even in the rear)
>>> controlling flow through the heater core to control temperature. In
>>> the Vanagon, you can almost (but not quite) completely shut off flow
>>> through the heater cores.
>>>
>>> In the Subaru, the coolant flow through the heater core is constant,
>>> and is actually the coolant circuit that modulates the thermostat
>>> (located on the bottom of the engine, return hose from the radiator).
>>> As others have pointed out, it is much better protected from the
>>> elements.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com <mailto:camping.elliott@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I reckon there are two things that I need to observe: 1. the time it
>>> takes for the temp gauge to start moving from the cold pin (Mrs
>>> Elliott's Subaru comes up a lot sooner), and 2. how soon before one
>>> starts to feel tendrils of warmed air come creeping out of the vents.
>>> Again, it's much quicker in the other car. If these are significantly
>>> longer time than others, like Jake, observed then something there's
>>> something fishy going on. Given that the thermostat is such a pain to
>>> get to on the 1.9l engine, I'll want to be fairly sure that
>>> replacing it
>>> is a worthwhile project.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>> Bend, OR
>>> KG6RCR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2009 9:47 PM Jake de Villiers wrote:
>>>
>>> On account of this thread I paid attention this morning on the
>>> way to work
>>> in the grey van. It took about a mile at ~30 degrees F. to feel
>>> a
>>> difference, about 3 for it to be warmish.
>>>
>>> I've noticed that the rear heater gets warm a lot quicker on
>>> both vans.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM, alfred bagdan <abagdan@shaw.ca
>>> <mailto:abagdan@shaw.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have the rear heater valve open, most of the hot
>>> coolant goes
>>> through
>>> the rear heater. Try closing the rear heater and see what
>>> happens. Also
>>> replace your thermostat in case it is stuck open. If the
>>> temperature gauge
>>> does not go up to the halfway point in cold weather, you
>>> will probably have
>>> to replace the thermostat to get some decent heat. Its a
>>> bitch of a job,
>>> but doable. When I replaced the hoses last summer I also
>>> put pipe
>>> insulation on the hot lines and also replaced the
>>> thermostat and the water
>>> pump. What a difference that made. I live in Edmonton,
>>> Canada, and I
>>> drove the van once this winter when it was -30C ( ~ -20F )
>>> and it was warm
>>> as toast inside, and didn't take long to warm up.
>>>
>>> Alfred
>>> 85 Westy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET <mailto:mst@AK.NET>>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come
>>> up to speed
>>>
>>>
>>> You just send her up here to drive my Syncro on a
>>> cold(subzero) morning,
>>>
>>> she will appreciate your van much more afterward. My
>>> kids ride to school
>>> with a blanket over them for warmth and they are
>>> wearing winter coats,
>>> hats, mittens, and boots at the same time. Vanagons
>>> have a rather large
>>> area to warm up and the front core is a long way from
>>> the heat source.
>>> Though it won't cure your problem you could put pipe
>>> insulation on your
>>> front heater hoses under the van. This will reduce
>>> the heat loss that
>>> occurs before the hot coolant gets to the core.
>>> Another and more
>>> difficult issue to deal with is that the front heater
>>> only draws air from
>>> outside, it does not recirculate cabin air. Thus
>>> while your heater core
>>> is trying to warm the air, the air is trying to cool
>>> the core. Not an
>>> issue in moderate climates but those in extreme cold
>>> areas suffer because
>>> of it.
>>>
>>> Mark in AK
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM
>>> <mailto:camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009 4:35 pm
>>> Subject: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come
>>> up to speed
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>
>>> My wife's Subaru Outback's heater is ready to put out
>>> some serious therms
>>>
>>> in about 3 minutes of drive time. The temp gauge
>>> comes up quickly,
>>> whereas the temp gauge in ol' Mellow Yellow needs
>>> another 5-8 minutes of
>>> driving in freezing temps to really start to creep
>>> upwards and for the
>>> heater to start doing anything interesting.
>>>
>>> I'd like to think that the difference is due to
>>> the awesome efficiency of
>>> the WBX engine . . . I'd like to think that, but
>>> something tells me that
>>> a 2006 Subaru engine is a tad more efficient. So,
>>> does anyone have any
>>> idea why the 1.9L engine is so sluggish compared
>>> with the Outback's
>>> engine when it comes to making hot water available
>>> to the heater core?
>>> Mrs Squirrel gripes about how long it takes to get
>>> warm air to come out
>>> the heater and I'd like to have some
>>> highly-technical answer to respond
>>> with. You know, baffle them with BS?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San
>>> Juan Capistrano
>>> Bend, OR
>>> KG6RCR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> 1984 Vanagon GL
>>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>>>
>>> Crescent Beach, BC
>>>
>>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com <http://www.crescentbeachguitar.com>
>>> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
| 
