Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:29:03 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
In-Reply-To: <016201c9a293$999e7240$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
> Sometimes
> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm ......even
> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps ) and
> it's very cold.
Ah -- a lesson learned. Keep the heater slider off until there's at least
some activity visible on the ol' temp gauge.
> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really rough
> on a waterboxer.
> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5 miles, turn
> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold temps.........like 20
> degrees F and below.
Short trips are about all I'm taking with Mellow Yellow right now. If the
weather or sunlight situation are not suitable for cycling, I takee the
Vanagon.
> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out of a
> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and plug
> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the engine
> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater circuit
> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
Sigh. One can dream, no?
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
Bend, OR
KG6RCR
On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
> the stock temp gauge sender is pretty close to the thermostat.
> so when that comes off the peg...........
> it's starting to close off the bypass circuit flow in the engine, and
> starting to send coolant toward the radiator.
> And the sender shows the temp of the radiator circuit coolant .........
> they'd want to read the hottest coolant as it comes out of the engine.
> < shoot, come to think of it........
> has anyone ever bothered to figure out if a water boxer thermostat is on the
> return side from the radiator , or on the 'feed to the radiator' side. Most
> newer engines have the t-stat on the return side to the engine........
> like all vw inline fours gas and diesel since the 1975 Rabbit, like Subaru
> engines etc. I never bother to check that out )
>
> The thermostat in a waterboxer engine is a 'two door' thermostat
> ........two cirucits ............one is 'bypass'. around and around through
> the engine.......
> bypassing the radiator circuit. The other circuit is the radiator circuit.
> The t-stat switches gradually over from one circuit to the other. The Heater
> circuit is something else of course, and not termostated in any way.
>
> That might even take 10 minutes...........as as it blends from the bypass
> circuit to the radiator circuit.
> so the change over is gradual. My guess is that at 25 % gauge defelction (
> halfway from zero reading to mid-defliction, by the LED ) is about half
> split between bybass circuit, and radiator circuit.
>
> You won't see 'full thermostated' temp at the radiator until after it's been
> in the radiator only portion for a short while. Like fully up to temp, plus
> a few more minutes, depending on rpm ( water pump speed ) . In town at
> lower speeds, lower load, it takes longer to get fully up to temp. Sometimes
> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm ......even
> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps ) and
> it's very cold.
>
> the best deal is a new german, OE quaility thermostat in the higher of two
> temps offered. Warmer is better, cooler is not.
> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really rough
> on a waterboxer.
> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5 miles, turn
> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold temps.........like 20
> degrees F and below.
> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out of a
> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and plug
> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the engine
> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater circuit
> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>
>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What's the easy way to tell whether the thermostat stays properly shut
>>> until the engine reaches temperature? I was thinking of starting the
>>> engine, take the temp of the radiator with an infrared thermometer,
>>> watching the temp gauge, and, according to my theory, when the gauge
>>> starts to indicate operating temperature the radiator should suddenly
>>> start warming up. That should work, right?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Short of removing the thermostat, boiling it in a pot of water and
>> watching/measuring with a thermometer, I would suggest aiming your IR
>> gun at the thermostat housing. See when the temp goes up there.
>>
>> I would imaging that measuring at the rad would take longer.
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>>
>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
>
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