Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:26:01 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
In-Reply-To: <3904D9001EE04670BF4E2E4AD3202BAC@hundt8d78adec8>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
So how does one use a block heater? What is this mystical device?
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
Bend, OR
KG6RCR
On 3/11/2009 8:04 PM Don Hundt wrote:
> Mike,
> You might think about finding a block heater for your van. I have a diesel
> dodge pickup that has about 4 gallons of coolant in it, lots of fluid to
> heat up. Blows warm in just a couple minutes after being plugged in for a
> few hours, even on the coldest Central Oregon mornings.
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>
>
>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>
>>> Sometimes
>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>> ......even
>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps ) and
>>> it's very cold.
>> Ah -- a lesson learned. Keep the heater slider off until there's at least
>> some activity visible on the ol' temp gauge.
>>
>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really
>>> rough
>>> on a waterboxer.
>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5 miles,
>>> turn
>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold temps.........like
>>> 20
>>> degrees F and below.
>> Short trips are about all I'm taking with Mellow Yellow right now. If the
>> weather or sunlight situation are not suitable for cycling, I takee the
>> Vanagon.
>>
>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out of
>>> a
>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and
>>> plug
>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the engine
>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater
>>> circuit
>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>> Sigh. One can dream, no?
>>
>> --
>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>> Bend, OR
>> KG6RCR
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>
>>> the stock temp gauge sender is pretty close to the thermostat.
>>> so when that comes off the peg...........
>>> it's starting to close off the bypass circuit flow in the engine, and
>>> starting to send coolant toward the radiator.
>>> And the sender shows the temp of the radiator circuit coolant .........
>>> they'd want to read the hottest coolant as it comes out of the engine.
>>> < shoot, come to think of it........
>>> has anyone ever bothered to figure out if a water boxer thermostat is on
>>> the
>>> return side from the radiator , or on the 'feed to the radiator' side.
>>> Most
>>> newer engines have the t-stat on the return side to the engine........
>>> like all vw inline fours gas and diesel since the 1975 Rabbit, like
>>> Subaru
>>> engines etc. I never bother to check that out )
>>>
>>> The thermostat in a waterboxer engine is a 'two door' thermostat
>>> ........two cirucits ............one is 'bypass'. around and around
>>> through
>>> the engine.......
>>> bypassing the radiator circuit. The other circuit is the radiator
>>> circuit.
>>> The t-stat switches gradually over from one circuit to the other. The
>>> Heater
>>> circuit is something else of course, and not termostated in any way.
>>>
>>> That might even take 10 minutes...........as as it blends from the bypass
>>> circuit to the radiator circuit.
>>> so the change over is gradual. My guess is that at 25 % gauge defelction
>>> (
>>> halfway from zero reading to mid-defliction, by the LED ) is about half
>>> split between bybass circuit, and radiator circuit.
>>>
>>> You won't see 'full thermostated' temp at the radiator until after it's
>>> been
>>> in the radiator only portion for a short while. Like fully up to temp,
>>> plus
>>> a few more minutes, depending on rpm ( water pump speed ) . In town at
>>> lower speeds, lower load, it takes longer to get fully up to temp.
>>> Sometimes
>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>> ......even
>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps ) and
>>> it's very cold.
>>>
>>> the best deal is a new german, OE quaility thermostat in the higher of
>>> two
>>> temps offered. Warmer is better, cooler is not.
>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really
>>> rough
>>> on a waterboxer.
>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5 miles,
>>> turn
>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold temps.........like
>>> 20
>>> degrees F and below.
>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out of
>>> a
>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and
>>> plug
>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the engine
>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater
>>> circuit
>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>>>
>>> scott
>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What's the easy way to tell whether the thermostat stays properly shut
>>>>> until the engine reaches temperature? I was thinking of starting the
>>>>> engine, take the temp of the radiator with an infrared thermometer,
>>>>> watching the temp gauge, and, according to my theory, when the gauge
>>>>> starts to indicate operating temperature the radiator should suddenly
>>>>> start warming up. That should work, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Short of removing the thermostat, boiling it in a pot of water and
>>>> watching/measuring with a thermometer, I would suggest aiming your IR
>>>> gun at the thermostat housing. See when the temp goes up there.
>>>>
>>>> I would imaging that measuring at the rad would take longer.
>>>>
>>>> Neil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>>>>
>>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
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>
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