Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:05:25 -0700
Reply-To: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Re: eBus project: A T2 Westfalia converted with electric motor
and LiIon batteries.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack R. <jack007@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> I read 80% of it... may have missed a few items, but I'm
> sure many on the
> list have basic questions:
These are my own basic, rough guesses from having followed the project for the past couple of months (Detailed data will surely be posted as the project progresses):
> 1. Total project cost
Required basics: Motor, controller, Adapter plate, throttle etc: $3000
Battery cost varies wildly depending on chemistry, speed/range goals etc.
For this conversion, a relatively new type of LiFePO4 batteries were used.
He has been ordering them in batches for trying out. So far battery cost is about $3000 for his current 108V system. First trial was with 48V, and he plans to go as high as 180V.
A replacement Prius battery is also $3-4000 I believe, and of similar weight, but will not give the same range since the Prius (and other current commercial hybrids) use NiMH cells with lower energy density.
> 2. Total project time (not counting research)
He started in Dec with basic work on the van, so while not waiting for parts, he has been working weekends since then. Early months was general work on the van and preparation. Most of the electric conversion was done very recently.
Project is not done yet, so the below remains to be figured out:
> 3. Range of your Electric Westy
> 4. Top speed
> 5. Time to recharge
The goal is for it to be a commute vehicle. The low base weight of the T2
(about 2000lbs less engine, gas tank etc), and the light batteries makes for a much lighter conversion (in the low 2000lbs total) than most current EV's (starting from a heavy base vehicle such as a Chevy S10, and adding 1000 or more lbs of Lead-Acid batteries.)
Hence a low total weight makes for better acceleration and range given a particular electric motor and battery combination compared to high weight conventional design. Final numbers is what he hopes to measure. He was hoping for a much lower energy use in Wh/mile than current heavy EV's.
> 6. Estimated "cost" to recharge
Again, will depend on energy used. Surely a small fraction of comparable gas cost, and could be much less than a comparable lead-acid battery based conversion.
Since I'm making an eBike, (Motor, controller, battery chargers etc arrived just minutes ago today, yippieee!), I did calculations for the eBike, bnot a car, and they are obvioulsy much lower. "Street legal" in Alberta, the ebike will be limitied to 35km/h and 1hp. This is set in computer software the controller. "Off road" without the limit turned off the motor gives a top torque of 85nm and top speed of about 60km/h.
This is about half of the torque of the 1.9TD, and half of the top speed.
I'm planning to use it for errands and commuting in the city, and some off-road riding on trails.
With city tires it should be able to travel on 10-12Wh/km and go up towards 50km. With off-road tires and on trail use, energy use is likely twice, and range 1/2.
Another guy crossed Canada from Vancouver to Halifax on an ebike last July, camping along the way, and paid a total of $8 in electricity cost.
> 7. For us not as lucky to live in Sunny California (how
> does one get
> heat)... something many air cooled owners are use to!
A gas motor converts only 10-20% of the fuel energy into mechanical motion in average driving. The rest can be used for heat at no extra cost. Most is wasted and just vented through the radiator. With an electric vehicle there is almost no loss. Motors are around 90% efficient. Any heat has to be taken "extra" off the batteries, hence reduce range. Best solution is to insulate the vehicle well, pre-heat it while plugged in and charging, then only add as little heat as possible. There are electric units to replace the heater core with in the car, or one could use an electric water heater (VW TDI's have these to speed up engine heating at cold start), heat the water, and pass it through the regular heating system.
> Would there be a cost / range benefit to add a large solar
> panel to your
> roof?
Not practical for a conventional vehicle. they are too heavy and have too high rolling resistance and wind drag to work just off solar cells.
Several students at UofA are on a solar vehicle challenge team, and build a car run entirely off solar cells. They compete annually in a solar race with outher universities. These are very specialized vehicles (think thin space craft on bike wheels). Average speed off the sun is around 60km/h.
For those who missed the original link, it is copied below. I expect new exiting updates as the eBus project continues a little more every weekend.
Cheers,
Martin
> With rather more modest goals (building an eBike) I was
> reading the electric
> vehicle forums and stumbled on a a guy that is converting
> his Westfalia
> camper to electric:
>
> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8012
>
>
> eBus, or since it is a poptop camper, maybe ePop, turns out
> to a good idea.
> With light LiFePO4 batteries and motor, the ePop weighs
> less than with the
> gas engine, and according to the builders initial
> impressions is quicker.
>
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