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Date:         Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:22:03 -0400
Reply-To:     Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Subject:      Re: another brake saga
Comments: To: Edward Maglott <emaglott@BUNCOMBE.MAIN.NC.US>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

It sounds like you're describing excessive travel on the rear wheel cylinders, due to improperly adjusted shoes. Does the handbrake work properly? It should only pull up 3 to 4 clicks before it stops and the rear wheels lock. This is an indication of the travel of the rear shoes; i.e.: the gap between the shoes and drums. This needs to be adjusted to take up all of the clearance without causing excessive drag. The shoes need to be centered by application of the brakes between adjustments, until it's adjusted perfectly. You'll be amazed at how much this affects your total braking action.

Mike B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Maglott To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: another brake saga

I was having wonderful brakes after replacing my master cylinder a year or so ago. Apparently I had been driving around with little or no pressure to my rear brakes for a while. All was well in the brake department until I started losing fluid. Then I started losing fluid fast, and had very poor stopping power and a puddle at my right rear wheel.

Rear wheel cylinder failure, drained all the fluid out of that circuit and I know I pumped air into it. I also think the pedal hit bottom during this episode. Off to FLAPS for 2 new wheel cylinders and new shoes. Debated waiting and getting cylinders from BD or another list vendor, but was in a hurry to work on it while I had good weather. OMG what a mess on the side that had been leaking. yuck. Got everything cleaned up and put back properly and adjusted properly so the shoes were barely touching the drum. Bled the system with the old fashioned GF pumping the pedal method.

Pedal remains soft. Meanwhile I score a cool pressure bleeder on Freecycle. So give that a try, didn't get any more air out. (Maybe a tiny bubble or 2.) I bled out about 12oz total which I think should be enough. No change in pedal. I review archives and read about bench bleeding the MC, which I did when I got the new one. I do this with it in the van. Just cracking the lines and trying to catch the fluid with rags. No change. I go for a drive on some gravel roads and find I can't lock the rear wheel with the brakes. Fronts do lock. On pavement I can't lock any wheel despite what feels like a LOT of pedal pressure. Can't really tell if I'm hitting bottom in that situation.

I decided to pull the rear drums to see what is going on in there. Weird thing. On One of the new cylinders the piston toward the front of the van pulls back into the cylinder on it's own. I think it might be the rubber boot pulling it back. It goes slowly but ends up with a pretty big gap between it and the shoe. Up to about 10mm if you wiggle things and wait a couple minutes. I looked at the cylinder on the other side and it seemed to be fine.

Questions: I'm thinking that on the first press of the brake pedal the rear circuit is going to spend all that fluid to push that piston out to the point where it touches the shoe and the rear brakes aren't going to do anything. Yes? How much fluid do I need to drain from the right rear wheel before I am sure I have bled the whole circuit from the MC to the wheel. How much for the front? Bentley mentions pushing a lever on the brake pressure regulator, but there is none on my '86. I remember other VWs having the kind with the lever, is this just an error?

Any other ideas appreciated and thanks in advance.

Edward


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