Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:24:47 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Flywheel Sleeve - WBX 2.1L
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you have the picture quite clear.
i have been over this myself numerous times.
I suspect it's exactly as you say - sloppy mahcinists, and uninformed
technicians putting them back together without the pilot beraing felt seal,
and felt seal retainer ring.
I have a stack of flywheels with that little ring missing.
I figure they only come in a new flywheel, which I priced at the dealer at
about 750 bucks, and even then........without actrually getting one and
looking at it, they have no way to know if that little ring comes in a new
flywheel........I suspect.
re
" All of the list vendors carry the felt washer, but
nobody including some VW dealers parts departments has the flywheel
sleeve. I find that really odd."
you find it odd that humans missed a basic and simple thing like supplying
an 80 cent metal ring as a normal part, one that's semi-critcally needed ??
I sure don't. I find that as 'normal and common' ..............and that here
and there, that parts of the parts system world don't make sense.
I have run into it many, many times in 35 years of professional full time
car repair.
And don't even get me started on how lame the parts people at my local VW
dealer can be. And their parts system isn't perfect either. Some things
are not shown corectly, or not shown well.
And it's only natural that that part should be supplied.......
but try to get someone to see the need, and actually make something happen
and get this simple part in the parts system .........
no, that's asking way too much. 'oh we could never do that .........that
would be too complicated.............to get an 80 cent part back into the
parts system."
anyway, someone will just have to make this ring. I'm finding them missing
on about half of the waterboxer flywheels I see. ( somewhere, under the
flywheel resurfacing machines, in machine shops across North
American........there is a trove of these little metal rings. )
and yes, you MUST have a pilot bearing dust seal - otherwise the pilot
bearing goes out in a few years from clutch dust getting to the rollers of
the bearing. It's THE weak part of a vanagon clutch. All the other parts
last quite well.
This would be 'cheating' of course, but if I just could not find that
ring, or one close enough to work, I would consider gluing the felt seal to
the inside of the flywheel hole..........just something to make it stay
there. I'd glue it lightly dry, then soak the seal in oil after the glue is
cured.
I soak my felt seals in engine oil. I think I read that in Bentley
somewhere. ( all seals need to be pre-lubed anyway, so they don't get
damaged running dry on first start up.........so I apply that same rule to
this felt dust seal. I was quite surprised in the Boston Bob video that he
puts them in dry ) .
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM
Subject: Flywheel Sleeve - WBX 2.1L
> This has become an issue with me. When the transmission was removed from
> my van, it was discovered this sleeve was missing, as well as the felt
> washer that is also supposed to be there.
>
> Here's the deal....
>
> The flywheel has a sleeve pressed into the hole in the center of the
> wheel. The sleeve fits flush on the front (front of the vehicle site)
> side of the wheel, and leaves a recess on the back side(crankshaft
> flange side) of the wheel. A felt washer fits into the recess and
> together they serve as a seal to the front of the needle bearing in the
> end of the crank with the felt against the bearing. The transmission
> input shaft goes through this whole assembly of flywheel, sleeve, felt
> washer and into the needle bearing in the end of the crank.
>
> The rub. When a flywheel goes to the machine shop for refacing during a
> clutch job, the sleeve gets punched out so the wheel will fit right on
> the lathe for proper alignment for refacing of the wheel. Trouble is,
> the sleeves never get put back in. Apparently the machinists think the
> sleeve is one of those little pieces that gets replaced during the
> repair, so he doesn't other with keeping up with it. The wheel goes back
> to the shop, and the mechanic there doesn't know the difference or
> doesn't care, and puts it back together without the felt washer and
> sleeve. With no sleeve and felt asher, in time needle bearing grease
> works it's way along the input shaft to the clutch disk face and trouble
> begins.
>
> After talking with a lot of people, it appears some mechanics don't
> think these two little parts are significant, while others feel they
> are. I had a nice little chat with Daryl at AA Transaxle and he told me
> that he sees numerous tranny input shafts damaged due to loss of the
> grease which resulted from no felt washer and flywheel sleeve to hold
> the grease in place. He recommended they be installed. After careful
> consideration I agree. It makes sense. It was engineered that way for a
> reason, so I am going to effect the proper repair on this - it gets a
> sleeve and felt washer.
>
> Here's the rub. All of the list vendors carry the felt washer, but
> nobody including some VW dealers parts departments has the flywheel
> sleeve. I find that really odd. With out the sleeve, the felt washer can
> back away from the needle bearing assembly by a full inch at least. What
> good does the felt washer do in that position.
>
> So - does anyone have a clue where this sleeve can be acquired. It is a
> simple piece, and I feel it important for a proper repair, yet I cannot
> find it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
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