Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:53:03 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: rear wheel cylinders
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reply-type=response
just want to concur ...........
I'm skeptical about this 'springs inside the rear wheel cylinders being a
cause of low pedal, soft pedal etc.
I only use german wheel cylinders. they could have a spring inside them.
I've never had a reason to look.
Do exactly as Ken says here about adjusting the rear shoes out some, then
tap on the break pedal, or yank on the parking brake level, to jiggle them
out into place some, then adjust again.
do that over an over until the drum will just fit on and turn smoothly with
some drag, and not excessive drag. If you put the drum on with very strong
drag, when things heat up, it will REALLY be dragging.
two other points -
one, always do one side at a time. So as to not mix up parts, and mostly so
you can go look at the other side for reference as you are working on one
side. Never mix up the parts left to right , as they are mirror images of
each other, and the adjusters have left threads on one side, right threads
on the other.
So just work on one side at a time to increase chances of doing the job
right.
two = about the shoe curvature . - they used to 'arc shoes' .......put new
shoes on a grinding machine that 'arcs' the new shoes to match the curvature
of the drum.
This is no longer done for environmental-safety reasons - putting brake
shoe dust into the air - very hazardous.
So expect that there will be a little seating in of the shoes as they wear
in. I haven't found it to be anything to worry about though.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Wilford" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: rear wheel cylinders
> AJ, I can't speak to the spring or no spring problem since I always use
> German rear wheel cylinders when I do rear brakes (every time I take a
> leaking rear wheel cylinder off it is a non German one). However I
> don't think this is your problem. First of all, did you measure your
> drums? Many times these are beyond the limits printed on the drum and
> need to be replaced. If you are using new shoes with old drums there
> can be a wear in period where the new shoes need to break into the old
> drums because the radius of the new shoes is for new drums and if the
> drums are getting close to the limit but still usable they it can take a
> little while for the rear shoes to seat in. Are you sure you bled the
> rear wheel cylinders properly? I have done this and still had soft
> pedal and then came back the next day, did it again and there was an air
> bubble still in the lines.
> Improper installation of the rear wheel springs, adjuster and hardware
> is the next problem I run across. Be sure you reference the picture in
> the Bentley manual as to how to install your rear brake hardware. Many
> times the person before you may have installed the springs or adjuster
> or even the rear most shoe wrong and this causes many problems.
>
> Finally the biggest thing I can't stress enough is adjusting the rear
> shoes so that they just start to drag on the drum. If you don't do this
> you are going to have crappy pedal no matter what you do or what type of
> rear wheel cylinders you have. If your shoes aren't adjusted far enough
> out when you step on the brakes they go out and stop without touching
> the drum or maybe just touching it, then you have to step again to push
> them out another pump to get them to do something. Once you release the
> brakes the wheel cylinders return like they are supposed to and you have
> to pump twice again.
>
> I have a nice step by step write up with pictures that I provide to
> customers who get their rear brake parts from me. If someone is
> considering doing this job in the future I would recommend they buy
> their parts from us at Van-Again and we will not only provide you with
> OE parts but also the information you need to do the job right. I can
> think of no other job on the Vanagon that I have seen screwed up with
> brand new parts more than the rear brakes. The fault dear Horatio lies
> not in our parts but in ourselves. You can quote me on that one. :-)
>
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
>
> A J wrote:
>> Having done the rear brakes on my Vanagon and ending up with the"soft
>> pedal" I was wondering if anyone had a set of wheel cylinder springs
>> they would be willing to part with?
>>
>> Even if it is just one that I could use to match to a new set. I just
>> cant see removing the cylinders and buying new new cylinders to replace
>> the new cylinders already installed to test if that is the real problem.
>> I figure I could just open the cylinders and see if there was a spring,
>> if not then just slip in one and see if that in fact cures the problem.
>>
>> So if you have several old cylinders with the springs and can spare a
>> pair, or even one please contact me. I will post if this works and in
>> fact cures the pedal problem. That way we can all be sure to check
>> before we install. I didnt.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> A J
>>
>>
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