Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 01:43:36 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Stewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Stewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <037001c9b71c$2c08a0a0$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Thanks for your responses, the cost I provided was the labor alone, No
Parts.
Sorry I should have been more clear.
R
On Apr 6, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
> well, it sure is better if the guy has waterboxer engine experience.
> They are not really quite like 'normal engines' ..........certainly
> not at
> the head gasket area.
> But hopefully he'll not get in trouble there.
>
> 1,500 for a total cost ?
> that can't cover a 'real rebuild' .........that can cover a top
> engine job,
> yes. Like new heads.
> or it could cover the labor on a full split-the-cases real rebuild
> job .
> not not for 'everything' for a real true real reubild.
>
> at 250,000 miles something needs to be done about the crankshaft and
> bearings.
> at least carefully checked, if not machined and bearings replaced.
>
> It's important to chceck the gap between the heads and the
> block.......
> where the 'outer water gasket' goes.
> If that gap is too small, the rubber gasket will pinch and leak
> after a
> while.
> if it's too large, the gasket won't be compressed enough , and it
> can leak
> later .
> if the head sits on the barrels tilted..............then the gap can
> be too
> tight at one end, too large at the other.
>
> none of this would apply if it was a 'normal' flat bottomed head
> ( where it
> bolts on the block ) and a a flat topped block.........
> like 'normal engines' have ......but it's nothing like that. It's a
> converted air-cooled design .....
> with a 'two step' head surface, and the distance between those two
> spots has
> to be pretty close to right, becuse that distance determines the
> compressing of that outer water gasket.
> That's the main thing that's weird , and maybe 70 % of the time you
> can just
> slap on a head and the outer water gasket compression will be about
> right,
> but sometimes that area needs careful attention to get right. One vw
> dealer technician told me once............'if it's not right, you try
> another head' ........
> which is bizzare since parts are suppossed to be standarized and all
> will
> fit anywhere they are suppossed to. It's not quite that way with
> waterboxer
> heads. Some fit better than others.
>
> on most engines, the head bolts are creamed down quite a bit, like
> 100 ft
> lbs say .......and the flat head gasket is very compressed, and the
> tighter
> the head bolts, the more the head gasket is compressed.
> In a waterboxer engine, the head bottoms out on the barrels, and the
> heads
> are held to the tops of the barrels by the cylinder head nuts at 37
> ft lb.s
> of torque .............but that has no affect on the water gasket
> compression , other than by distance. The head nuts don't compress
> that
> out water gasket actually ............the ccompression of that
> gasket has to
> be about right, not too much, and not too little. Very mickey mouse
> design
> actually.
> Good luck. Subaru engines have real headgaskets, of course, with flat
> bottomed heads too. Upgrade to one of those !
>
> 2.1 engines are known for low oil pressure at the rod bearings after
> high
> miles, due to stretching of the rod bolts. At 250K miles......
> might be good to re-do that area for sure.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Stewart" <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:29 AM
> Subject: Engine Rebuild Questions
>
>
>> Good Monday to everyone,
>>
>> I have a local engine rebuilder working on my 2.1 Automatic engine
>> which had roughly 250,000 miles on it.
>>
>> He informed my heads needed to be replaced. I could clearly see the
>> space between the two valves having a indentation bridging them and
>> the surface areas were very badly pitted.
>>
>> I planned on purchasing a set of rebuilt heads from Van-Cafe, anyone
>> think this a good or bad idea?
>> Anyone used them before? Have any feedback?
>>
>> Secondly is there anything regarding the rebuild that is a must to
>> replace component wise since he has it all apart?
>> i.e. sleeves, pistons, camshaft etc...
>>
>> I am awaiting a final parts list from him now but want to be sure I
>> am
>> not missing anything.
>>
>> Before he rebuilds it he is going to be cleaning all the parts in a
>> special bath then glass bead blasting the non sensitive parts.
>>
>> Also how long should a standard rebuild take? i.e. 7-21 days? or is
>> it
>> something that can be done in a 40 hour work week?
>> What kind of price should I expect?
>> He told me it would be roughly $1500 dollars.
>> He said he would be check to see if the camshaft needed to be
>> reground
>> and would check all valves etc. His shop only does rebuilds but of
>> mostly race car engines and big truck engines so I trust he knows
>> what
>> he is talking about. He is not a VW guy at all he just knows engines.
>> I did give him the Bentley just to be safe though.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Robert
>> NY
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