Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (April 2009, week 4)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:39:03 -0400
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Warning confirmed Re: gfci outlet buzzes with inverter
In-Reply-To:  <49e15ddf.c5c2f10a.2fd1.ffffec08@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Unless the inverter is designed, rated, and UL/CSA listed for use in an RV application it should not be hard wired to anything. The Vanagon is small enough that anything can be plugged into the inverter. True RV inverters have a neutral,(grounded) that is the same potential as the grounding plug. Yes there is a difference between grounded, (normal current carrying wire) and grounding, (only carries fault current). Just imagine some walking up to your van in bare feet with some unknown potential there.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of David Beierl Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:20 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Warning confirmed Re: gfci outlet buzzes with inverter

I just checked out my AC/Delco model 59-204, rated 400 W / 3.5 A max. I used three instruments to measure -- a 10,000 ohms per volt analog meter, a 10 megohm true-RMS digital, and an electrician's neon/solenoid "buzzer."

The Delco has real three-terminal sockets, and the third terminal is connected to the instrument case. There was miniscule leakage current (few microamps) from either phase to the ground terminal. Voltage through 10 megohms was about 25 RMS. So far so good.

Then I checked from each phase to the minus power terminal, which is chassis ground on the vehicle. Wham.

RMS meter measured 116 vac between phases, 67 vac from either phase to minus terminal. Analog "RMS-indicating, average-reading" meter measured 105 phase to phase, 105 phase to minus terminal. "Buzzer" measured roughly 120 vac phase to phase, roughly 100 phase to ground.

The buzzer draws about 25 milliamps at 120 vac, which is why electricians use it.

Conclusion: 1) If either phase ("hot" or "neutral") is shorted to the vehicle chassis, sparks will fly and the future of the inverter is in doubt. 2) Both phases carry dangerous voltages with respect to vehicle ground. 3) Neither phase is dangerous with respect to the inverter chassis, *UNLESS* that chassis is connected to vehicle ground. However if a plugged-in device has either hot or neutral leakage to ground terminal, that leakage will be available at the inverter chassis with respect to vehicle ground.

All inverters may not be like this; but at very least a number of them are. Each of the four or five I've owned, from Xantrex and others, has warnings about connecting neutral phase to battery supply -- can't quote any just now b/c I've no idea where any of them are.

Wes, you can do a quick check if you have an ohmmeter -- if the chassis and the socket ground pin are connected together, but neither is connected to the minus supply terminal, your situation should be as described above.

d

-- David Beierl - Providence RI USA -- http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/ '89 Po' White Star "Scamp"


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.