Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:03:48 -0400
Reply-To: Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
Subject: Re: Engine conversion on 84 Westy
Thanks, it's real nice to see someone who understand something!
You must have owned a business in your life :-)
This is one thing that got me... exhausted, cheap Vanagon owner who want
everything for nothing, and i have seen may share of that. Today, i can spot
them from miles away. Not to talk about the 4000$ that peoples owe me since
i open the shop because i was to much of a nice guy.
I can tell you all one thing, for us (Hans from Vanaru and me), it's a
passion thing... Especially for Hans in regard of Subi conversion, i can
tell you that after quite a few years we are still struggling money wise.
That is a fact. But we are getting there, slowly but surly. By the time i
close my shop in 2 years i should be about even money wise.
You have very well explain the situation of a small, very small company that
live out of a dreams and passion more than anything else, same goes for
Bostig and i'm sure it was the same for TIICO, Fast Foward or any other
small one who where passionate about Vanagon. But being passionate people
are often not good business man. Just take Boston Bob story before and
after! Talks to Daryl at AA, I'm sure he as a similar story.
I have been working on those vans for 5.5 years in my shop, 3 years at home
and on my own vans before.
I plan to retired from Vanagon in 2 years. Do something more lucrative like
restoring a 200,000$ collection car or even a sail boat. My girl will be
done with her PhD and will make way more money that i'm doing now, for now,
I work like a dog so she can end the long road she is in peacefully. And for
those who know us, she as work in my shop for 2 years so we could survive,
she as save my shop, with her money and time involve, she knows more about
vanagon than 95% of you guys.
The fact that i live in the rust belt got me exhausted and somewhat
discouraged. I had it! Rust, dirt and grease are a sad fact of VW vanagon.
Lately, my hands heart a lot from small bleeding crack that don't have time
to heal.
Even if i'm doing my 31th Subi conversion it's still somewhat of a challenge
each time, but at least it's cleaner work.
In the case of a late Subi engine conversion, price vary a lot, sometime you
make more sometime you make less. Instead of taking 10 days to do one i can
do one in 5-7 days, but what about all the hours lost at the beginning...
researching, tying, failing, starting over... The guys at Bostig knows what
I'm talking about. It's a never ending story.
Now i would be curious to see how many REAL hours a DIY would put on a Subi
conversion, in average, not the single case where everything went well. Even
stock engine can be a nightmare.
I agree that Bostig is a nice option for DIY. But me, i really like the
torque and power of the 2.5L. On top, it's very easy to push the 2.5L in the
200hp without Turbo. No Turbo mean one less part to go wrong on a long 10k
miles trip.
A 160-180hp is a perfect power plant for an heavy van like the Vanagon
camper and it's still very economic on fuel.
This week is a reflexion week for me, time spend working on those van, spent
on my web site or on mailing list/forum... men that is a lot of hours.
I decided for many reasons to stop body work, i'm doing my last one now. I
may do a few NON rusty one in the next 2 years but that's it! Same story
with stock engine, i lost my machinist so I'm not going on bottom end no
more, if i decide to do stock engine it will be rust free and only top end.
I have lost the battle with rust... no way to save those seam, and i have
tried everything.
Sorry for the long post, but i have been writing here since 99 so...
Regards, Ben
http://www.benplace.com/
On Wed, 6 May 2009 11:38:55 -0700, Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>Jamie,
>
> I don't think you're being a crybaby but then these shops who do
>conversions have to make some money. Yes, if and when everything goes
>exactly right and perfect, they probably make a bundle! But that 'perfect
>case'/ everything goes according to plan engine conversion is surely the
>exception. They have to charge enough to cover the times when bolts break
>off in the customer's van, when the Vans in for the conversion are POS! and
>all rusty or the motors are wrong, or some other complication has to be
>chased down and remedied before the customer is happy with the deal. You
>probably have no clue as to all the strange stuff that costs a shop $ that
>must come from somewhere...
>
> It's like trying to charge for a re-model in the construction trade...You
>know how long things *should* take..but they don't always work out that way
>and sometimes they can take 5 times as long, not because the fella doing the
>work messed up but because something that couldn't be predicted is
>encountered...Once you take on the job, you can't go back to the customer
>and say..."Oh, Sorry, but it will be 5 times more than I said to finish this
>up because -______ and _____ came up"..
>
> So these established conversion shops have to charge enough to average out
>a reasonable profit..The fact that they are still in business..that shows
>they've got it pretty close to right..If they were really outrageously
>overpriced, someone would be doing it for less and taking all the business.
>If they were under priced and losing money..well, I don't see many people
>who'll PAY to work on someone else's vans day in and day out.
> Good luck with it though. You'll still be 'ahead' with a newly converted
>older Vanagon than if you went out and bought a Sprinter or some other brand
>new 'vanagon' imitation.
>
> Don Hanson
>
>On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Jamie Fitterer <fittdog8848@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been looking for someone to do a conversion for me and it seems that
>> those that do this seem it is worth charging double for the subaru engine or
>> charging ASTRONOMICALLY high prices just for the install. Now I understadn
>> that their services are valuable, but i also realize that they probably
>> havea system down that allows the m to convert an engine realtively fast. I
>> do not think that I should be able to get a brand new engine in my truck for
>> 4K installed and that does not even cover the cost of a replacement in some
>> cases for a conversion engine in a Volkswagen.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone out there know of any other places taht are reasonable when it
>> comes to engine costs and installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have already looked at www.smallcar.com, www.vanaru.com. I do like
>> Vanaru's engines.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope I do not sound like a cry baby!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Guys
>>
