Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:27:03 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: 1.9 muffler orientation
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yes, correcto-mundo on which end is which......
the threaded holes are for the tail pipe end.
it is confusing all right, plus the cat can be bolted on in one of 3
orientations.
I dummy fit the whole thing several times until it comes out right.
Just looking at one I just put together........
looking staright on at the tail pipe end of the muffler........the tail pipe
flange goes at the about 7 o'clock position.....downward and toward the rear
of the van, and the f3 sided lange has a point to the top.
That will make the flange at the cat end also ....toward the back and bottom
a little bit, and the top of that triangle is flat .....like a flat upwards.
and the cat has the same thing ........
a flat side of each flange will be upward..........assuming OE style german
cat...........and the cat flanges will be downward, so most of the cat
sticks upward from the flanges on the ends. Like the flanges are downward,
and fairly centered, as far as fore-aft is concerend.
I also like to fine tune the angle of the tail pipe by mounting it
first.......then before tigtening the 3-bolt flanges bolts. .... I can
rotate the whole muffler a little to get that 'just right' 1.5 inches below
the rear bumper at the end of the tail pipe. I want them tucked up
nicely....
but also not so close to body or bumper that it'll make contact on start-up
or shut down.
( also be aware on reason you don't want the tail pipe 'just sticking out
there' too much ....particuarily if the opening is straight back......if you
back up into a dirt bank or berm........dirt can get stuck in the tail pipe,
and in a bad case even keep the engine from starting. I thought I was
almost stuck in my auto trans vanagon that way once......doing tight u-turn
on a narrow dirt road......I backed into a ditch sort of ......it
stalled.....
and I realized if it was a clogged tail pipe, and it wouldn't start, and it
was jammed and stalled into the dirt bank, and it was on a tilt, and I was
by myself and couldn't push the van uphill a foot or two to get it out of
the dirt bank.....I mighta been stuck there a little .......so keep that in
mind about tail pipe angle and location. )
Some tail pipes won't allow this btw.........getting it looking really
right. ( I have high standards, lol - I want it race car elegant in every
aspect ) .
I have seen many tail pipes that will only make the tail pipe point more
downward than would be elegant.
I suspect that a syncro and a 2WD tail pipe might actually be differnt, but
many vendors only supply one, and pershaps don't tell you either......
though I could be wrong about that, but many's the time I felt that a brand
new tail pipe was not really correct, from the aftermarket.
same on mufflers btw........I've seen many cases where the muffler wasn't
really the correct dimensions.
a 1.9 has a thin short muffler.
a 2.1 has a fatter longer muffler.
I have seen more than one time..........a thin long muffler.........in other
words, 1.9 diamter, but 2.1 lennth.
That's where the famous trick of putting an old brake pad under the 2.1
support bracket straps comes in, to make the strap effectively shorter to
accomodatge the actually incorrectly dimensioned muffler, that is suppossed
to be the right one.
There is also a tail pipe that is too long, that I've seen a few times. (
probably a diesel vanagon tail pipe ) . If used on the longer muffler, you
end up with the end of the tail pipe stcking out past the end of the body
........looks dorky.
So......IF things will not come out just right.......
sometimes it's not 'you' .......it is the incorrectly made aftermarket parts
that are suppossed to be right, but really are not.
and I'm sure everyone realizes the reason for putting the tail pipe right at
the lower outer corner is to pull exhaust away from the van cleanly - I can
just see the vortex spiraling off the corner there.......pulling exhaust
with it.
If the tail pipe wase centraily located.....there would be a tendency for
exhust to be re-directed right at the rear hatch door, and possible leak
past the door seal there. ........so for all vanagons, .......particualily
engine conversion ones........since you get to build it like you
want.....the tail pipe outlet goes as close the rear lower corner of the van
as you can get it, more or less.
I'm not sure all engine conversion shops are aware of this factor. Just
keep 'doing what the manufacturers do' is one of my conversion mottos. There
is a reason many things are done more or less the same way, on many makes of
cars, over many years of development and production. Usually it's because
......
" that's what works." But seeing what people 'make up' is entertaining and
amusing for sure - thank goodness !
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Duntz" <eduntz@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:41 PM
Subject: 1.9 muffler orientation
I've got my old muffler off and a new Ansa ready to go on. Trouble is the
old one is bigger, and looks like someone may have bent things a little to
make it fit. The new one seems right, but I can't quite figure out which way
the flange mounts to the cat; in other words, I can spin it on its
horizontal axis and there are three ways it could mount. I'd like to find
the right way and then try to get it mounted that way, maybe letting it run
for a while to heat up the pipes, soften things up, and try to gently get in
in place right.
So where should the flange be? Closer to the top of the van, sort of
diagonally pointed down to the rear, or what?
I also notice that the new one is different on the cat end than on the tail
pipe end. I think that the cat end has wider bolt holes, and the tail pipe
has smaller, threaded holes. Is this right?
Thanks,
Ed in CT trying to get ready for a trip.
