Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:47:26 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Big brake conversion
In-Reply-To: <6bc66ccf0907081011y460ec51eyc18163d2c8987424@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have to disagree a bit here. While some of this may be true for extreme
conditions or panic stops weight distribution and other factors have a lot
of influence. Most cars are front heavy and of course weight will shift to
the front while stopping but the Vanagon has much more a of 50-50 weight
bias particularly when loaded. The rear brakes can do a lot. Most folks that
complain about Vanagon brakes have rear that are nor working properly, the
wrong shoes, and drums that are worn oversized. VW mad things a bit worse as
both he adjusters and cylinders are on the same end so much of the shoe is
not contacting the drum.
Want a low cost brake upgrade? Here's how:
Rear brakes. Make sure the drums are in spec. Go to the dealer and get the
shoes set, 251698531LX, List price now only $60.00.
Get the hardware kit there also 251698545, $29.10 list. Get a pair of ATE
wheel cylinders. (Dealers is not a choice here).
Remove the lower shoe mounts and shim them out 2-3mm. Put it all together.
Make sure the cables are properly adjusted. After they seat you will be
surprised how much the brakes will improve.
For the fronts, get the PBR metal master pads. After they seat you will have
brakes. Be sure the rotors are also within spec. I recently pulled off a set
machined under 10mm.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Don Hanson
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:11 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Big brake conversion
Just some general comments on upgrading brakes...
Generally speaking, putting more stopping power on the rear wheels is a
waste of time and money for most vehicles. The major portion of your
braking is done with the front...The 'harder' the stop, the more the front
end braking load is...Period.
Your brakes are only effective as the traction of your tires...stomp down
in a panic stop and the front of the van sinks, the rear rises. The weight
transfers to the front wheels...Once your rear wheels are really
'un-weighted' by this forward weight transfer, they have no traction to
contribute to braking at all. All the brake pad force and disc size in the
world won't stop you any quicker without any traction. If you put big ole
six piston Brembos on the front of a van you can probably lock up the rears
even with the meager stock brakes back there...So why bother with *more*
braking power? A locked up wheel is not a matter of degree..bigger won't
lock it any more... All you do by putting bigger brakes at the rear is add
unsprung weight and spend some money that may have been better used for ABS
or something.
Just my opinion, but supported by some research...If you want a visual of
this 'front wheels do most of the braking' concept you should watch some
Moto GP or road racing videos..Watch those guys going into a slow section
with their back tires waving around above the pavement under hard braking..
Don Hanson
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Max Wellhouse <dimwittedmoose@cfu.net>wrote:
> Mike and Crew: The statement that the Small Car Big Brake Kit has
> Chinese rotors and calipers is false according to the ebay "ask
> seller a question " response I got from Small Car a day or two
> ago. The person responding said all parts were German-made.
>
> Mike, can you check with the person that told you about the Chinese
> parts? Collectively, I think the List would like to find out the truth.
>
> I guess i have a hard time believing that he rear big brake kit is
> $200 more than the front kit due to the additional cost of a rear
> caliper set up for emergency brakes; that's like $100/side. There
> must be a good reason though.
>
> DM&FS
>
> IO At 11:30 PM 6/30/2009, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Yeah what I've put out for brakes, pads, bolts and machining will be
close
>> to $600 if not more. But I got Brembo disks and the kit comes with
Chinese
>> made disks that are not good, or at least that's what has been reported
to
>> me.
>>
>> I'd drill the holes myself as was suggested but I think I'd be lucky if
>> they
>> would go on the van if I did.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On 6/30/09 7:16 PM, "Max Wellhouse" <dimwittedmoose@cfu.net> wrote:
>>
>> > FWIW I got a quote of $25 to get all 20 of my MB knock off alloy
>> > wheel holes reamed out from 12mm to 9/16" by a local tooling
>> > shop. You ARE talking about 4 holes getting drilled right? Maybe
>> > there's welding involved who knows?
>> >
>> > For the time you've put into chasing down the new audi parts etc, and
>> > the $130 for this trip to the machine shop, that $600 kit is sounding
>> > better and better.
>> >
>> > YMMV
>> >
>> >
>> > DM&FS
>> >
>> > At 07:42 PM 6/30/2009, Mike Miller wrote:
>> >> Vanners,
>> >>
>> >> I'm in the final stages of converting my '87 syncro to Audi G60
brakes.
>> >>
>> >> Took the calipers to a machine shop to get the mounting holes
>> rebored to the
>> >> correct spacing. Guy says $130.
>> >>
>> >> This sound about right or am I missing something here?
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >
>>
>
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