Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:32:16 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Bearing Problem - Any Ideas??
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lol, Hi John,
doesn't that just fry ya ?..........
you go to a '100 % effort' .........and it doesn't work out !!
a few things come to mine ......on the workmanship side -
were you using new nuts on the spindles ?
I ask because, in re-using them, I find that you don't get the dent quite
fully out of the edge of the nut, and it still binds on the spindle some,
throwing off off the 'feel' of how tight the nuts are . I doubt that
happened, but that pops into my mind.
and ........not to rag or say it too many times.......
but, IF the fact that the bearings are chinese-made is a factor ......
that is right in line with what I've been saying, and doing, with vanagons
and many other cars for years and years .......
that is :
"a New Part is worth as low as 20 $ toward producing The Desire Result, and
Workmanships is worth up to 80 % in producing The Desired Result."
therefore.......
I never ever replace bearings that are good, or if I do ......it's german
made ones, and even then........only when the old ones have served out their
service life.
for a tapered front roller bearing, first thing I do is take the bearing
with rollers on it, and using my fingers, roll it back and forth in the race
it runs in.
If there is roughness, it's easy to feel.
To get even more 'feel' on how rough the bearing might be, I sometimes wash
the grease off with spray carb cleaner ......
that'll really make roughness stand out.
I also examine the races and rollers with a microscope .......or very
strong magnifying glass. Almost all used bearing surfaces look like the
surface of the moon when you do that though.
Point is ........
it's just amazing how well wheel bearings last. They can go decades
practically with just a tiny bit of grease in there ..........and no
adjustment ever.
Given that.........I find that with some minor cleaning and fresh grease,
and a proper adjustment .....
they are good for anohter 10 years or so.
Another factor ......'the do the hell out of it' factor.
People want to say.......clean bearing to bare metal without a trace of old
grease anywhere, in an effort to do a really good job.
I suppose in theory .........that's appropiate.
And there are people who will freak out and scream 'you MUST MUST remove ALL
traces of old grease etc.' .......
but .....
seriously .......'overdoing it' often results in a net loss, not a gain.
All I do is get the thick old crude out ............wipe things down nicely,
and put in high quality synthetic wheel bearing grease. I make sure there's
plenty in the hub, and in the cap. Too much of course will come out and get
on wheels and brakes, so 'not too, too much' on quantity of course. Then
adjust them carefully.
Also !! .,
just thought of this ......in the Workmanship camp .......
sometimes it's tricky to get the new races fully seated.
the best 'driver tool' I have found for installing the races, is an old race
ground down on the outside so it's a nice fit but doesn't jam in the hub, as
you use it to drive in the new race. A nice little handled welded on is
super nice, but not completely neceessary.
But check that.....
you might not have gotten the races fully seated.
I probably got this way about bearings, grease and adjustment ..........from
something that happened in the 70's on my 56 VW Commerical Bus ( an old
spittle with rear doors on both sides ) .
I was in the middle of nowhere out in the desert, and my left front outer
wheel bearing started squeaking.
I pulled it apart,,,,,the bearing was blue and dry.
I got some grease off the suspension ........just used old crudy grease
leaking out of the grease seals around the front torsion bar pivots.
and I greased that bearing with it.
I made it to St. George, Utah, on a sunday. The owner of the VW dealership
was there, and he opened up the parts dept, and sold me a new bearing for
like 12 bucks.
I took it back apart in the parking lot ..........the 'bad' bearing looked
fine.
12 dollars would buy about 2 tanks of gas at the time. I returned the unused
new bearing.
I drove the 'had been bad' bearing and that van for years afterward.
never a thought about that left front outer wheel bearing either.
and now that the quality of the parts are going down .................you
know what I'm saying.
and ......about chinese made products....
some are great ..........some are a fine, fine buy for what you get.
Some ..........on some things they push how cheaply they can make something
........until it's really useless.
And, heck not to get started on a whole thing .......but we've seen chinese
made products that kill people, and pets , due their pushing 'how cheap'
they can make something more than anyone could.
If nothing else, I always ask in advance.......country of origine on all
parts.
I go for german first, ............and rarely brazillian or mexica-made, or
wherever.
I probably would not use chinese-made wheel bearings on a vanaong, period,
unless it was an emergency.
I'd put your old german-made ones back in myself, ajusted and lubed nicely.
......or check to see if the races are seated. I mean, even chinese-made
bearings should work right for a while.
"They don't make 'em like they used to' is the old saying ........
and that appears to apply to vanagon parts. I'll keep my still-serviceable
original german made bearings myself, with good synthetic grease on them,
nicely adjusted.
You probably have it figured out by now I bet !
nice to see your post.
sorry this got so long,
scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Bearing Problem - Any Ideas??
> OK,
>
> Just replaced front rotors both sides with brand new ones. Installed and
> seated the new bearing races - no problem. Greased the pucky out of the
> races, the new bearings, and generally all over. Assembled the whole
> thing on the spindle with all the appropriate parts, tightened the
> spindle nut snuggly, then backed off the nut slightly. Pulled the guide
> pins, cleaned, greased, re-installed with new accordion rubber dust
> covers. Remounted the calipers, and torqued the bolts. Installed the
> wheels, torqued the bolts, the spun the wheels while adjusting the
> torque on the spindle nut so the wheel would turn three times before
> stopping. Rocked each wheel to check the amount of play in the bearings.
> There was a tiny bit - appropriate. peened the spindle nut and put the
> end caps back on. Secured the speedo cable with the circlip. Then gave
> it a test run.
>
> Unexpectedly I got a big whine from the front end. The faster I went,
> the louder the whine. Rocked the steering wheel back and fourth - whine
> would "winnow" or "wow" - ie, change pitch.
>
> I am mystified. As I see it, this was about the most perfect brake job
> with new rotors and bearings that I have been privy to participate in.
> Yet, there is a problem whose cause is not obvious. I'm not at all sure
> where to look.
>
> The only thing I can say more on is that the bearings said "Made in
> China" on the box.
>
> BTW, all these parts were a local purchase from a reputable imported car
> parts supply house.
>
> Anyone got any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
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