Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:21:48 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Brake work pictures
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
nice write-up there Jim.
and you obviously put some time and effort into writing it.
I would add that to push the pistons back , I just pry between the edge of
the disc and the face of the old pad. I use a square shaft large screw
driver for that , works perfectly.
And......it's really better to open the bleed vavle ( put a hose on it, to a
jar ) when pushing the pistons back ..........that way the old brake fluid
goes into the jar, and not back up into your master cylinder, possibly doing
harm.
Also..........you are speaking of the twin piston calipers used until
1985.........
if the person asking has an 86 or later vangon .......it's a sliding caliper
design with one piston ......a different deal altogether ......
so someone with an 86 or later vanagon could get confused by instructions
for the early calipers.
on the two piston early type ...........I find a lot of outer pistons kinda
stuck, or solidly stuck. Usually worse on the right side of the van.
so watch for that.
For a very stick or firmly stuck piston ..........the right repair is a
rebuilt caliper of course .
For kinda stuck but not badly stuck caliper pistons - I don't know anyone
else who does this beside me , but you 'exersize them' .
Best done with two people.
You pry one piston back in ( bleed valve closed ) with a lever, relax that
tension, have the other person step on the brake pedal to move the piston
back out, then they relax, then you pry it back, then they push it out again
with the brake pedal etc. Run the piston back and forth ........do it about
10 times or so.
max 3/8 inch travel or so ..........with new brake fluid in there too
............that can extend their life fairly well and help the piston move
smoothly again.
I would never replace any brake pads or parts without at least changing the
brake fluid to that wheel, or to that end of the van. Period.
wheel bearings .....
amazing how well those last ! I know of dozens and dozens of vanagons where
the front wheel brgs havn't 'ever' been atteneded to in anyway, but they
havn't fialed. Usually I just clean them up, put on really good synthetic
grease, and adjust them carefully. Particularily the larger inner ones. The
smaller outer ones are weaker, especially on eariler vans...........like
1982.....the outer whl brg is a little light duty for the application.
By 1985 they have a different spindle and better outer wheel bearing. VW
loves to underbuild, then upgrade, as the years go by. So for sure, 82 9
( and earlier I image ) front wheel bearings are a bit weak, but with proper
lube and ajustment, they last quite well too. I doubt I've ever had to
replace any of the later years front wheel bearings, in 2WD anyway.
let's see..........Oh ! it IS Friday ,, well ....let me see if I can think
of a trivia question. ( working 7 days a week one looses track after all )
how about this one -
What is the first production application of inboard front disc brakes ?
what model and what year was it introduced.......what car was that on ?
additionally..........what did that caliper look like ( it doesn't look like
calipers as we commonly know them, same in principle......but entirely
different looking )
So describe what it looks like,
and where was the parking brake on that car as well ? .........like which
wheels did the parking brake work on.
And finally .......
what would be the purpose or advantage/s of inboard front disc brakes ?
scott
turbovans.com
( sometime I'll ask what car < there's more than one make that
does this > uses the rear axle ( half shaft is a more accurate
term than 'axle' ) as a suspension member, in addition to its normal
function of driving the wheel ? )
It would be like a rear axle with CV joints on our vanagons , where the axle
was part of the suspension too, not just for wheel driving.
what car uses that system ?
(hint - that car has inboard disc brakes too, btw, and twin shocks at each
wheel, at that end of the car )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Felder" <jim.felder@gmail.com>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
Cc: <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Brake work pictures
> Pretty much ever car I've worked on since the sixties (yes, european
> cars had them back then) you pull out the two bolt or knock out the
> two pins with a punch (in the case of a Vanagon) that hold the shoes
> in. Then you can take some longnose and pull the shoes out.
>
> If you are just replacing shoes (this seldom happens) you can use a
> prybar or screwdriver to reach into the recess where the pads came out
> of and slowly and carefully pry the calipers EVENLY wide enough to get
> the new pads into that spot, because the new ones are always thicker
> than the old one. There is a special tool to spread the calipers
> available at your FLAPS. If this is all you're doing, replace the pins
> and put the wheel back on. Be sure to keep track of any shims and
> springs you might have taken out and get them back in exactly the same
> way or you will have squeals and squeeks.
>
> If, when you inspected your brake disc, you felt much of a lip at the
> edge, you need new rotors too. Good german engineering dictates that
> the pad and the metal of the disk wear together. You can mike the disc
> and compare it to specs, that's the right way to do it.
>
> If you're going this far, pick up a set of bearings and replace them
> now or you will have to do the whole thing over come bearing time. And
> get a spray can of anti-squeal and a can of brake cleaner.
>
> Ok, you've pulled the shoes as above. Now remove the bolt at the top
> or bottom of the caliper housing and swing the housing up off the
> disc. Use a coathanger length to suspend it so that the brake hose
> doesn't get strained. Pull the cotter and undo the nut. Before you can
> do this on the drivers side on a VW you have to pull the little clip
> on the square thing sticking out of the grease cover (this square
> thing is the end of the speedometer cable) and keep the clip where it
> won't get lost. Pull both calipers. Take a long brass drift on a stack
> of newspaper and tap the bearings out, letting the drift go around the
> outer bearing race as you tap as if you were giving it a circular
> tatoo, if you are saving the bearings. If not, chuck the whole
> rotor/bearing assemblies.
>
> Get yourself a good tube of high temp grease (Amsoil Purple will do
> nicely) and open the tube. Put plastic out and get a handful of grease
> and work it into every space in the bearing and do this to all four
> bearings. Tap the new greased bearings into place. Use the brake
> cleaner to get every vestige of grease off the disc and then coat both
> sides with anti-squeal spray. Change gloves. Tighten the nut to
> bentley spec and put the cotters in and bend the tips. Put the grease
> caps on and pull the speedometer cable through the drivers side and
> press the clip on. Drop the caliper assemblies down over the disk, put
> the fastener bolt back in and go to paragraph two.
>
> NO grease on the shoes or the rotors/discs.
>
> Put the wheels back on and you're done.
>
> Jim
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Scott Daniel -
> Turbovans<scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>> or, I was gonna say ......
>> the Bentley Manual isn't of sufficient help ?
>>
>> also .......there are more than one version of disc brakes on a vanagon
>> .....
>> so you might say what year.
>> the early type is very straightforward, the 86 and later a little more
>> involved.
>> Scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Felder" <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: Brake work pictures
>>
>>
>> It's pretty easy. I don't think I have any pictures, but what do you
>> need to know?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM, John Rodgers<inua@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Would someone please point me to some web pictures of Vanagon Disc
>>> Brake Repair?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John Rodgers
>>> 88 GL Driver
>>>
>>
>>
| 
