Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:42:07 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Idiots for Clunkers
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yes, coercion.
Govenermet can't buy my car loyalty.
Besides, it's not like they are handing you 4,500 cold cash, there's still
car payments, registration on a new car, and insurance.
It's no free lunch, not at all.
Most manufacturers now build cars in the US. A Honda is likely built in
Ohio, BMW and Mercedes Sport Utes in South Carolina etc.
Plus...........many are assembled on site from compoents all over the place.
I think it qualify as 'american' they only have to have 35 % US content -
something like that.
VW New Beattles are made in Mexico etc ....
I 'suppose' you could see that as 'jobs going to mexico' or money going to
mexico if you want .....
but that's hardly to point in my opinion.
I have been saying a long, long time .......it does not matter WHO makes all
the cars and tv's ........what matters is how many cars and tv's can the
planet afford to have made every day.
And clearly.........consumerism tears up the planet.....
but 'they' think it's about jobs .......
'they' think digging up materials making products, and spreading them around
puts food on the table. It does not, not *reallly.*
The way it's going ....
the planet will be awash in consumer goods, and everyone will have 6 cars,
and 14 tv's and 8 computers .....
and then they'll STILL say ......
what's happenging our our climate ? .............why don't we hore jobs and
money ? etc.
I tend to hove overly simplistic, even child-like views.......and I
promise.....
sure as the sky is blue, 'making more cars to creat jobs, printing money
pass it around to get people to buy new cars......
really, REALLY does not help in the long term.
It's SO short sighted !
they could just pay people to stay at home, and not make all these new cars
and toys.
They don't see overproduction when it's staring them in the face ?
How many cars does the planet need ?
Our car and light truck production in North America was some 17 million
units in 2007, and down to some 14 mil or so the year after that.
What good is ruined planet but but it's covered in cars ??
and ........check this out - the entire environmental impact of meat
production and consumption is a greater enironmental cost than the entire
transportation sector ..........yes, making hambergers pollutes more than
all the cars, trains, and planes put togther !
And it't not even addressed.
So ..blindness prevails as usual.
It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I know many people who
think the cash for clunkers thing is dumb. And WHERE does the money for that
program, come from ???
it comes from the future ............there will be more and move governemnt
debt than ever before ....
and no end is in sight.
The rational thing would be to say .....
'ok, we've been doing things that didn't work. We need to reorgize the
entire process - the whole thing, real estate , financing, car production
etc.....
and ..........I have this lingering hunch ..........one of the roots of all
this craziness is the stock market system - wall street. Imagine if all
those people actuall y worked, fixed something, or grew food, rather than
just speculate on numbers.
And ...........the US Consitution ......
they sadly left out any laws about size of governement.
The size of goverment should be limited and pegged to a percentage of
population, and the cost of governement should be pegged to gross national
production.
As it is now, size of govenrment is rampantly out of control. as well as
cost of operating it, with no inherant limits empossed anywhere.
If they thought they needed a US Space Force for 4 trillion dollars tomorrow
........all they have to do is vote it in, more or less. There should be
some limites. It is NOT representative goverrnment, that I can see.
on this van Chris.........what a beauty. I don't even see that it's rusted
much. I could make that into a fine, fine daily driver and trip machine
without too much work, I bet., Shame to see it destroyed. Personally, I'd
rather it sat in my yard, and I bought some interesting but good used car,
than let the government destroy it.
Now I'm getting riled up ........what gaul our gov has to attempt to pay us
to destroy ( not recycle the marketplace, but to just plain ruin it ) our
very loved older cars.
I don't know how bad your Weekender is really .......but she's a speical
model, and a real beauty. Barring silly legal and govenement issues, shame
to destroy such a beauiful special van.
I suppose a car is just an appliance to a lot of people, about how I might
feel about a tv.
Where we are concnered, where we love and reveer our older VW's ......they
are far more than an appliance.
they're like a family member.
So my government wants to pay me to destroy a family member. No thank you !
And with money from nowhere too. I just dunno, I just dunno.
sorry, I will really try to stop until friday at least.
----- Original Message -----
From: "chris and/or ruth" <populuxe59@YAHOO.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: Idiots for Clunkers
I've been looking into the Clunkers option, but I look into all options and
run the numbers. I'm just like that. Dodge is offering to match the $4,500!
That's $9,000 off a vehicle--easy. When I looked into it more, found that
Dodge is completely out of their compact sedan type car I want. Remember,
they shut down their plants a couple months ago? Even if I wanted a more
fuel efficient car they have none. Ford? Out. Chevy? None. Import? Doesn't
seem right to use the money skimmed off your paycheck to buy foreign.
Now, about my 90 MV getting crushed and shredded. Currently I'm offering it
at $4,500 and no offers. It's got rust and high miles. Unless I want to
stick 5-10,000 into it, it's pretty much at the end of it's useful life.
Then last night it started sucking coolant on the highway and it looked like
disater(turned out to be a small coolant coupling). I would hate to see it
go that way, but I bought it and took over the maintenance 8 years ago. How
much longer am I required to do this, and if I don't, do I have to give it
away for thousands less then our generous government offering? It's
coercion.
Chris C
90 MV
utube of Volvo getting "disabled":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo
miguel pacheco wrote.......
"Ok, I'm with you....son gets it, but not dad. I'm opposed to this
program for many reasons. I am one of those who believes it makes >more
sense to drive/use what exists, rather than consume energy and
resources to manufacture new. Furthermore, and more significantly,
when I see any VW van go the boneyard, I am like the indian of tv
commercial fame, overlooking the Hudson (is it the Hudson?).......zoom
in and you see me shed a tear.
But what about the junky Vanagons, sitting in a field of weeds, that
are continually advertised and rarely purchased? Are we to berate
those frustrated sellers who finally give in and send these vehicles
to the junkyard?
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