Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (August 2009, week 1)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:47:27 -0700
Reply-To:     Danny <bruiserbabie@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Danny <bruiserbabie@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Idiots for Clunkers
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <030901ca14b5$904138b0$6501a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Toyota and Ford decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River.  Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.   When the race was over, the Japanese team won by a mile.  The American team was very discouraged and depressed.  They decided to investigate and find a reason for the crushing defeat. A team made up of senior management was formed to find the problem and recommend appropriate action.  The team’s conclusion was:  The Japanese team had eight people rowing and one person steering while the American team had eight people steering one person rowing.  Feeling a deeper study was needed, the American management team hired a consulting company for a second opinion, paying them a lot of money.  The consulting company advised the Americans that, of course, there were too many people steering and not enough people rowing.  Wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing teams management structure was totally reorganized to:                 -Four steering supervisors                 -Three steering area superintendents                 -One assistant superintendent steering manager  Also, the management team implemented a new performance system that would give the one person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder.  They called this incentive, “The Rowing Team Quality First Program,” with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower.  They got new paddles, canoes, more equipment, and extra vacation days and bonuses.  The Japanese won the next race by two miles.  Humiliated, the American management team laid off the rower for poor performance, halted the development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment.  The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.  Also, the next racing team was outsourced to India. So, what does this story tell us?   Ford has spent the last thirty years moving many of its factories out of the U.S., claiming they can’t make money paying American wages. The Auto Workers Union leaders, complying with their "Mission", put enough stubbornness to also ruin some of the supply chain companies, so they have starved a number of communities that will eventually turn into ghost towns. Toyota has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the U.S.  Toyota made $4 billion in profits; Ford had $9 billion in losses.  Ford just doesn’t understand how to win a race. GM and Chrysler will also keep following Ford's "Corporate and Hierarchical" steps.   The each time fewer supporters of the ex-"Three big ones" feel more disappointed all the time with the poor quality of their vehicles.

Danny '84 Westy (Vanny)  

--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:

From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> Subject: Re: Idiots for Clunkers To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:42 PM

yes, coercion. Govenermet can't buy my car loyalty. Besides, it's not like they are handing you 4,500 cold cash, there's still car payments, registration on a new car, and insurance. It's no free lunch, not at all.

Most manufacturers now build cars in the US. A Honda is likely built in Ohio, BMW and Mercedes Sport Utes in South Carolina etc. Plus...........many are assembled on site from compoents all over the place. I think it qualify as 'american' they only have to have 35 % US content - something like that. VW New Beattles are made in Mexico etc .... I 'suppose' you could see that as 'jobs going to mexico' or money going to mexico if you want ..... but that's hardly to point in my opinion. I have been saying a long, long time .......it does not matter WHO makes all the cars and tv's ........what matters is how many cars and tv's can the planet afford to have made every day. And clearly.........consumerism tears up the planet..... but 'they' think it's about jobs ....... 'they' think digging up materials making products, and spreading them around puts food on the table. It does not, not *reallly.* The way it's going .... the planet will be awash in consumer goods, and everyone will have 6 cars, and 14 tv's and 8 computers ..... and then they'll STILL say ...... what's happenging our our climate ? .............why don't we hore jobs and money ? etc. I tend to hove overly simplistic, even child-like views.......and I promise..... sure as the sky is blue, 'making more cars to creat jobs, printing money pass it around to get people to buy new cars...... really, REALLY does not help in the long term. It's SO short sighted ! they could just pay people to stay at home, and not make all these new cars and toys. They don't see overproduction when it's staring them in the face ? How many cars does the planet need ? Our car and light truck production in North America was some 17 million units in 2007, and down to some 14 mil or so the year after that. What good is ruined planet but but it's covered in cars ??

and ........check this out - the entire environmental impact of meat production and consumption is a greater enironmental cost than the entire transportation sector ..........yes, making hambergers pollutes more than all the cars, trains, and planes put togther ! And it't not even addressed. So ..blindness prevails as usual. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.  I know many people who think the cash for clunkers thing is dumb. And WHERE does the money for that program, come from ??? it comes from the future ............there will be more and move governemnt debt than ever before .... and no end is in sight. The rational thing would be to say ..... 'ok, we've been doing things that didn't work. We need to reorgize the entire process  - the whole thing, real estate , financing, car production etc..... and ..........I have this lingering hunch ..........one of the roots of all this craziness is the stock market system - wall street.  Imagine if all those people actuall y worked, fixed something, or grew food, rather than just speculate on numbers. And ...........the US Consitution ...... they sadly left out any laws about size of governement. The size of goverment should be limited and pegged to a percentage of population, and the cost of governement should be pegged to gross national production. As it is now, size of govenrment is rampantly out of control. as well as cost of operating it, with no inherant limits empossed anywhere. If they thought they needed a US Space Force for 4 trillion dollars tomorrow ........all they have to do is vote it in, more or less. There should be some limites. It is NOT representative goverrnment, that I can see.

on this van Chris.........what a beauty. I don't even see that it's rusted much. I could make that into a fine, fine daily driver and trip machine without too much work, I bet.,  Shame to see it destroyed. Personally, I'd rather it sat in my yard, and I bought some interesting but good used car, than let the government destroy it. Now I'm getting riled up ........what gaul our gov has to attempt to pay us to destroy ( not recycle the marketplace, but to just plain ruin it ) our very loved older cars. I don't know how bad your Weekender is really .......but she's a speical model, and a real beauty. Barring silly legal and govenement issues, shame to destroy such a beauiful special van. I suppose a car is just an appliance to a lot of people, about how I might feel about a tv. Where we are concnered, where we love and reveer our older VW's ......they are far more than an appliance. they're like a family member. So my government wants to pay me to destroy a family member. No thank you ! And with money from nowhere too.  I just dunno, I just dunno. sorry, I will really try to stop until friday at least.

----- Original Message ----- From: "chris and/or ruth" <populuxe59@YAHOO.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Idiots for Clunkers

I've been looking into the Clunkers option, but I look into all options and run the numbers. I'm just like that. Dodge is offering to match the $4,500! That's $9,000 off a vehicle--easy. When I looked into it more, found that Dodge is completely out of their compact sedan type car I want. Remember, they shut down their plants a couple months ago? Even if I wanted a more fuel efficient car they have none. Ford? Out. Chevy? None. Import? Doesn't seem right to use the money skimmed off your paycheck to buy foreign. Now, about my 90 MV getting crushed and shredded. Currently I'm offering it at $4,500 and no offers. It's got rust and high miles. Unless I want to stick 5-10,000 into it, it's pretty much at the end of it's useful life. Then last night it started sucking coolant on the highway and it looked like disater(turned out to be a small coolant coupling). I would hate to see it go that way, but I bought it and took over the maintenance 8 years ago. How much longer am I required to do this, and if I don't, do I have to give it away for thousands less then our generous government offering? It's coercion. Chris C 90 MV

utube of Volvo getting "disabled":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo

miguel pacheco wrote....... "Ok, I'm with you....son gets it, but not dad. I'm opposed to this program for many reasons. I am one of those who believes it makes >more sense to drive/use what exists, rather than consume energy and resources to manufacture new. Furthermore, and more significantly, when I see any VW van go the boneyard, I am like the indian of tv commercial fame, overlooking the Hudson (is it the Hudson?).......zoom in and you see me shed a tear. But what about the junky Vanagons, sitting in a field of weeds, that are continually advertised and rarely purchased? Are we to berate those frustrated sellers who finally give in and send these vehicles to the junkyard?


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.