Vanagon EuroVan
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Date:   Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:17:34 -0700
Reply-To:   Phil Stanhope <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:   Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:   Phil Stanhope <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:   Re: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder?
Comments:   To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
In-Reply-To:   <01c101ca194b$7960f780$6501a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I think you gave me a clue Scott. 5 years ago i pressed in new upper A-arm bushings passenger side. Either i pressed them in badly or they were defected bushings because that A-arm has a small rattle/play at the bushings. Fast forward 5 years and two manual trannys....perhaps this loose bushing is my culprit? I have installed new front Bilsteins round 05'(Yellow ones)....275-75-R15 Conti Vanco 8's (Load Range-D) on Steel 15"SA rims. I did all new front suspension bushings in 05'and always got a pro-shop to do my alignment after steering rack swaps/bushing replacements. Oh yeah Addco Sways Front and rear. This used rack was solid when i installed it, but looked like the oil in it was old/dried up so i greased the teeth and installed new boots.

So ive got a spare A-arm that im going to take to a pro with a VW press-key designed for vanagon bushings. I didnt have that special VW key but i SWORE i had those bushings seated all the way around, tack welded in place.....but you never know, if you are shade tree mechanic like me:)

Phil 84' Westy, Tiico'ed in 02'

--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> > Subject: Re: Re: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder? > To: "Phil Stanhope" <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM>, vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 7:45 PM > Hi, > no, I don't think the tires, per se, are harmful or rough > on your used steering racks......... > assuming everything else is correct. > > I don't particularly like D load range tires. I like them > on the rear though.  I like C's all around, or C's in > front, D's in rear. > there is a distinct handling advantage ( perhaps 5 to 10 % > in neutral handling, as opposed to 'boat handling' or pig > terminal understeer ) by having stiffer rear tires. Wider > really helps too. > so I like all C's, or all D's , or front C, rear D's. > I never run front tire pressure over about 38 psi cold. > I wouldn't put 50 psi in the cold in the front, I don't > think. > > how are did your rack fail ? > what exactly gave out ? The most glaring example of a > manual rack going south that I know of is.... > I let a guy use a vanagon of mine for over a year. > When I finally got it back, it had a solid 2 inches of play > measured at the edge of the steering wheel. ( manual > steering ) . > I figured a drive disc had gone south. > nope.........what happened was where the rack comes out of > the right end of the rack housing......that bushing there > was all ovaled out, allowing about a fat eighth inch up-down > play there, which translated into steering slop. > I have never seen this before or since. > A manual steering rack on a vanagon with me driving > .........I expect one to last indeffenitely. > I am easy on equipment, and keep everything with in spec, > well lubed etc. > later I observed what probably did that rack in. > the guy .....I was watching him back his own van out of my > shop, and when it came time to turn the wheel to turn the > van in the right direction, > he didn't pull on the steering wheel, and he didn't let the > van be moving a little when he turned it either - he JERKED > the streering wheel. > Hard too. he also weighed about 350 lbs or more. > I'm pretty sure that's what did in that rack. > > other factors - > for sure, wheel and tire roundness, and balance. > People are always after 'balance' ..........many times > tires and wheels are out of round. > Shocks...........some people think the shocks just cushion > or control the ride. They do far more than that ! The > protect the suspension from sudden forces. > Driving with worn or weak shocks contributes significantly > to wearing out the front end. > > alingment of course - that's got to be well in the ball > park. > driving style.........and where you drive. > if you are hitting pot holes at speed all the time, with 50 > psi in Load Range D tires ...... > I'd expect it to be rough on things, including the rack. > > my first thoughts go to - > 1. ...................fronts suspension has to be > decent.  Not all brand new rebuilt - but no obvious > slop or play anywhere. > > 2.  shocks have to be damping well, they can't be 20 > years old. > I like really premium shocks myself, HD Bilsteins. > > 3.  Alignment ...........has to be medium close at > least. I get them 'darn good' with my tricks on a flat > smooth floor in my shop.  I can measure toe pretty > accurately, and castor pretty accurately, and I have a way > to tell if castor is about right, and if it's the same left > to right.   Checking how the wheels tilt when > they are turned left and right.....even seeing what a > known-good vanagon acts like there..........checking the > outward tilt of the front wheels, at full right and left > steering lock ..... > at least I can tell when it's pretty close. > > 4. tires, and tire pressures.  as I said, I don't go > above 38 psi cold in the front usually, Rears must be 4 to 6 > psi more. Rear shocks have to be good. > they affect the front end too. > 5. - worn springs ?  is it saggy or low ?  just a > thought. > 6. also .......... > 14 inch wheels and tires on vanagons. > I have run numerous different 14 inch set ups, and having a > dozen vans, I can swap sets of tires from one to another, to > see how it affects handling and ride. > lately, I got into 15 inch steel south african wheels - a > 'true' vanagon 15 inch wheel ( I am fairly down on spacers, > adapters etc for fitting late audi wheels etc ) .... > and Michelin Agilles 205/65 R 15 C tires. > those tires used to be about $ 105 each. Now they are 150 > each .....but SO worth it. > I always noticed when I put new heavy duty Bilsteinss > shocks on the front .........they didn't make the ride and > handling brilliant on my vanagon. > On my turbo volvo sedan, and older mercedes sedan - those > shocks make the car 'brilliant' shock-wise ...... > perfect damping, subtle ride, super control............like > really a joy to feel and drive. > but on vanagons with 14 inch wheels and tires, vanagon > rated tires too.... > they were like 'so what' .........not brilliant, felt like > normal ok used shocks. > BUT .........with the 15 inch michelis agiiles, in that > size ...205/65 R 15 C ....... > now my vanagon does ride and handle brilliantly. > > I was going to sell my 85 Adventurewagon ..........but > ........well, re-doing the interior got discouraging > .........then I got a Eurovan cheap with the Agilles tires > on it....so.........swapparoo ....and Bingo ! .... > now I'm carving winding curves in the 45 to 55 range, and > hitting 65 on the straights between curves on a winding > canyon road. > and the van feels PLANTED to the road...... > very, very controlled, yet responsive and dyamamic too. > > 'maybe' .......a 14 inch tire with a stiff enough side wall > can get close to that. > What I also have found out in many, many sets of tires and > wheels ( I actually own around 95 mounted and balanced tires > , beleive it or not......got a fetich for them, always > picking up good used ones to try out etc. .......this is > counting about 9 vanagons and several other vehicles ) .... > anwway, > what I now believe is that you can not really make up for > lack of sidewall stiffness with tire pressure. > You need good stiff sidewalls for proper vanagon handling. > I havn't driven those vanco's so can't really say about > them ............but I can say that ......side wall > stiffness is very, very important, tires pressures shouldn't > be too high in front especially ..........and the 15 inch > michelin agiless in 205/65 R 15 C is nigh perfect. > > I've often put the pressure up pretty high for a trip with > a lot of stuff on board.............a few hours later out on > the freeway ........things all hot and warmed up ........and > the ride felt too stiff........and I let out some air > pressure - immediate improvement.  'too high' on the > tire pressures isn't really right. > My normal recommendation would be in the mid to high 30's > on the front ( 32 to 38 roughly ) > and 6 psi more in the rear. Measured cold. And up to maybe > 48 cold in the rear. I don't think I'd ever go above that, > measured cold. > > in general, don't let air out of a hot tire, unless it's > insanely much too high pressure. > oh ........ > and some people are just rough on equipment, and don't even > know it. > Iv'e seen vanagon drivers that will rip the shifter right > out of the floor eventually. > I've seen a guy that short shifted every last shift > .......take it to 1,500 ,or maybe 1,800 rpm max in each > gear, then shift ( which is ok by itself ) ...... > but then floor it every time immeidately. he was lugging > his engine *every shfit * ! ...... > short shift, then 100 % throttle........really rough on > things. > if the engine can not keep up with throttle ........that's > lugging.  Don't push it harder than it can repsond to. > no wonder his fully rebuilt 1.6 TD was using oil badly, in > only 40some thousand miles - likely he just pounded out the > piston ring grooves from lugging badly every last shift. > > and .......there is no one to critic people's driving. So > they could be really tough on stuff, and not even know it. I > have seen it a lot actually. > I have one freind, a total non-car person. Can barely check > oil, maybe not even that. I sold him an 85 GL. > I figured they'd likely have bad luck with it ..........I > jokingly said to them,........I can't believe how well you > guys do with this van ........I thought it would blow up > long ago. > And nothing ever changes on that van. Two plus > years........the tires don't look more worn ......etc. > Working on it one time .......I said to my friend Robert - > 'you must drive this thing pretty nicely, even gently." > he said he did. > Riding with him..........he tended to be at 2,300 rpm and > 25 % throttle max, all the time. > A bit too gently actually ...... > but very, very little wears on that van . > so .........driving style has a LOT to do with it. > > I drive fast.......but I never drive hard. My turbo volvo > sedan isn't happy until 80 even .......it's got such high > gearing you can downshift out of top gear at 90, and it > doesn't care .......that would put it right at mid-range in > 3rd.....awesome car. > I have never even flat floored it wide open,.  I drive > fast, just not brutally on the equipment. > same for racing car drivers....... > the really brillant ones are fast, and easy on equipment, > others just destroy stuff. > Same in Alberta on the coal sands giant trucks - the ones > that are 4 stories tall, and have 20 foot tall tires - both > men and women drive them. They last better with women > driving them.  It's a big factor, the driver, and > driving style. > > sorry it got so long ! > Scott > turbovans > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Stanhope" <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:09 PM > Subject: Re: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder? > > > Scott, I installed a used manual steering rack only 15K mi. > ago. Am i going to be doing this every 15K mi.? is it > possible im bustin them because i run 8-ply Conti Vanco load > range D?...round 45-50psi?....and Florida potholes combined > with a heavy westy? Do Power racks take beatings better than > the manual racks?...if so.....i suppose i could convert it > altho, i like not having a zillion pumps and pullys on my > i4. (More power/MPG's) > thanks! > Phil 84' Westy no AC, No PS from the factory. Tiico'ed in > 2001 > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> > wrote: > > From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> > Subject: Re: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder? > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:53 AM > > they ( Maval ) may not supply manual steering racks. > I tried to see their exact product list, > but so far only saw : > > Products Offered: > > a.. Power Rack & Pinion Steering Units > b.. Power Steering Pumps > c.. Power Steering Gear Boxes > d.. Electric Steering Columns and Gears! > so perhaps they do not supply rebuilt manual ones. > I can supply a good used one though. > Scot > www.turbovans.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder? > > > > Ken Wilford at Vanagain.com sells the Mavel Rebuilt > rack - or at least > > did. I have bought two from him. And they have the > lifetime warranty. > > Never had a problem with either unit. > > > > John Rodgers > > 88 GL Driver > > > > Anthony Egeln wrote: > >> The Maval racks have a lifetime warranty....done > the warranty once > >> already. > >> > >> http://www.mavalgear.com/ > >> > >> But you may have to go through a retailer to get > one.......which is a > >> pain because once they make their cut they don't > want to talk to you > >> again. > >> > >> See if you can buy directly..........and let us > know if that is the case. > >> > >> BTW, I think the key thing is too flush the system > thoroughly, to remove > >> old fluid and metal. Otherwise supposedly they > invalidate your warranty. > >> > >> Good luck! > >> Anthony > >> '89 Syncro GL (Hidalgo) > >> > >> > >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Phil Stanhope <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM> > wrote: > >> > >> From: Phil Stanhope <surfmobile007@YAHOO.COM> > >> Subject: Manual Steering Rack Rebuilder? > >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > >> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 8:00 AM > >> > >> So the 2nd manual steering rack i installed is > already showing a little > >> play on one side....prolly needs > replacement....These racks arent beefy > >> enough for heavy Westys IMO. Does anyone know a > place i can send it to > >> have it rebuilt? > >> thanks!Phil 84' Westy Tiico'ed in 2001 > >> > >> > >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET> > wrote: > >> > >> From: David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET> > >> Subject: Re: New lister & first time owner of > '87 Vanagon GL > >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > >> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 4:53 AM > >> > >> At 03:32 AM 8/8/2009, Douglas and Annie > Dodson-Mäuck wrote: > >> > >>> I still have questions to pose yet it's late > and I'm feeling tired so > >>> I'll sign off for now. > >>> > >> > >> Welcome aboard! > >> > >> -- > >> David Beierl - Providence RI USA -- > >> http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/ > >> '89 Po' White Star "Scamp" > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >


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