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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:39:42 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: No start, no codes ... usual stuff doesn't help.
Comments: To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

re " Perhaps a weak > battery? Charged it to 13.5 float still no zumzum. Also NO CODE set."

I don't believe there are any subaru OBD-I codes involving the starter itself, or the actual starter circuit, or ignition sitch. ...........those items are not even onboard as far as the soobaru ECU is concerened.

there IS a 'starter swtich' code that the ECU can have...... but it's not about the starter cirucit or starter operation - it's wether or not 'start signal' gets to the ecu, so it knows the engine needs extra fuel to start up, or whatever its strategy is. If that signal is missing......that will set a code. The engine will start cold without it, but with difficulty. That signal is a branch of the starter circuit, and not part of the main 'make the starter go' cirucuit and a bad starter will not set a code in the ecu, I beleive.

also .......on really serious 'keeper' vanagons ..........I like to add a heavy duty generic starter button with nice solid wires from battery directly to starter solenoid. That gets a fat jolt to the starter solenoid for sure. There's a nice flat spot on the instrument cluster just above the light switch that is perfect for adding a nice dedicated starter button. Scott turbovans

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: No start, no codes ... usual stuff doesn't help.

> Hey Al, > > Did you not hang the entrails on the door? ;-) > > Nearly always works!! > > John Rodgers > 88 GL Driver > > Al Knoll wrote: >> It's a 1989 SinghCrow with a subaru OBD1 engine management system. Last >> year at Mastercraft Motors, it was noticed that a code for bad starter >> voltage was set although the starter worked just fine while >> troubleshooting a different OxySensor problem. >> >> Curious, eh? Cleared the code an moved on. Bimeby I installed the >> excellent Westyventures starter upgrade. Worked fine, cranked fine, >> never >> failed until a trip to the eastern sierra back country. Then once, it >> failed to turn over. Second try, just fine. Later in the trip it >> happened >> again and this time it took three tries to crank it. Drove home from >> the >> fine excursion parking on downhills and having to use momentum starting >> twice. Got back, parked the van. Next day, started fine. I turned it >> off >> and tried a restart. Nada, no click, nothing but a dip in the measured >> battery voltage. Subsequent attempts ended in miserable failures. >> Strong >> language administered in both fractured Deutche and shattered Kanji, no >> result. Feathers, bones, chants...the usual stuff, no go. >> >> Consulted the muses and guruses, learned lots. Tested the ignition >> switch, >> fine. 12V right where it should be. Checked at the starter solenoid >> (relay) input ~10 V about what it should be if there was a current draw >> elsewhere. Hooked up the remote starter switch. Zoom - Zoom. So what >> could it be? Voltages seemed normal around the circuitry. Perhaps a >> weak >> battery? Charged it to 13.5 float still no zumzum. Also NO CODE set. >> (for those with Digijet/fant, codes are a step up from the vanagon ECU) . >> Out and under (plenty of shade there) and physically trace the red/black >> wire up to the front of the beast. No apparent melting, phlogistical >> traces >> or even questionable insulation found. (NTF). So now to trace from the >> pull off connector at the ignition lock/switch. First do the jumper bit >> just to be sure. Enough current is drawn through the steel jumper that >> it >> warms to the touch. >> >> Visually following the red/black behind the relay panel we come upon a >> curious CRIMP connector. Now Hans and Fritz and Dieter dont use yellow >> crimp connectors so it must be aftermarket, but why the no start. >> >> 11 years ago at the advice of my Ins Co, I had an alarm system installed >> that has an ignition disable feature. The details are that the solenoid >> drive current passes through a normally closed when not armed, relay >> contact, now 11 years and 100K+ miles old. This relay (Potter and >> Brumfield) not your average ChiCom substitute was tucked up out of sight >> above the relay panel I fetched it out and took a look at it externally >> no >> visible defect. Plugged it back in and ... Zoom Zoom! Hmmm. Second >> try, >> no zumzum. Called up the fine folks at Rocky Mt. Window tint (David >> (pieface) is the owner). Explained the symptom and he offered two spare >> relays and mentioned that I must have forgotten to replace the relay >> after >> the recommended 50Kmi. Sheepishly I promised to do better in the future, >> installed the replacement relay and ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM. Kept the suspect >> relay >> to be examined at leisure. >> >> Here's the failure scenario: The contacts degrade with corrosion over >> time >> and eventually fail intermittantly by not passing sufficent current to >> activate the solenoid. If you don't know about the mystery circuit you >> don't know where to search for the defect and end up with feathers, >> bones, >> chanting and so on and lack of zumzum. >> >> So if you have one of these recommended by your InsCo ignition disablers >> installed, check with the provider to see how it works and what >> components >> were added AND where they're physically located so when the day comes >> that >> your starting is inhibited by old age, decrepitation, entropy and >> corrosion >> you'll have a chance to fix the problem. Oh yeah, update the current >> path/schematic diagrams to include the extra circuitry and carry a spare >> whatever. >> >> Pensionerd , Got Zum! >> >> >>


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