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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:58:52 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Faintly disturbing noises beginning behind...('84 inline gas
              VW with 5sp)
Comments: To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

feathered tires can make noises for sure. re water pump .........given Don's general smarts about things automotive and vanagon-tive , I'd expect that he would know to identify that it's an engine only noise, as it would do that in neutral, van not moving, 'sometimes' that is. He made it sound like an 'under way only' sound though.

now you just made me think of .....speaking of noise sources on the engine - I find quite a few alternators with rumbly bearings in them. Most noticeable when turning the alt. by hand after removing the belt. Not detectible otherwise, sometimes. The ole listening stick comes to mind for those ........things with bearings in the engine - water pump, alternator, etc.

Does the noise come from the engine reving in neutreal, or does it do it only in 'in flight' ?? Another trick of course is to shut off the engine at 60 mph or so, then listen and feel. If it's an 'under load' only noise, that won't work of course. Coasting with engine off ( manual trans only ) you can feel and listen for everything besides the engine. Not good to do in an automtic, Never coast any automatic to be sure to not do any damage to it. They're not made for that. Manual trans doesn't care of course.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Felder" <jim.felder@gmail.com> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> Cc: <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Faintly disturbing noises beginning behind...('84 inline gas VW with 5sp)

Tires that are on their way out will drive you crazy with noises like this.

Jim

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > Here's how I test cv joint play with everything assembled : > First, with van ( or bus if you prefer ) jacked up, grab an axle and slide > it left and right. > it should slide easily. This movement is the balls sliding in their > grooves - you want them to slide nicely of course. > > next, ......in neutral with parking brake off, hold the axle firmly with a > large pliers or vice grips. Hold it from ratating while you try to turn > the > trans flange on the inner end, and wheel/tire on the outer end. The idea > being to discover rotational slope in the CV's. There's not suppossed to > be > any. > 'some' is OK. If you hear clicking when you do that, it's probably worn > and > dry in there. Or, hold the wheel and rotate the axle.......just testing > for > rotational slop. > > I find that as long as they have good grease in them, even with play, then > can work nicely. > I recently had a nice New Zealander bloke here in my shop for a clutch > issue > I think - clutch and muffler, something like that. . During that process > ........we found one of his innner cv's with more slop that I have ever > seen > in a CV - put it wasn't making noise at all, and that's not why the van > even > came here. We put in a much better good used one. Might have swapped an > outer to the innner position too. > > I just asked today if anyone besides me thinks that the amount of grease > suppled with a boot or cv kit is enough. I have seen MANY cv joints after > a > few years that didn't seem to have enough grease in them - like the grease > evaporates almost. I use black moly grease.......what I call 'black > slimey' > .......I put in a pretty generous amount, filling the flange areas with > grease, and plenty pushed into the balls of the cv with a putty knife, and > some in the boot. > > I appreciate the creativity of using good used balls in a tired cv joint, > and usually surfaces mate to each other, and doing that I would regard as > a > 'gotta keep moving and this is the only way to do it with what we have > availiable right now' type of repair. I keep used CV joints around, and > would just pick out the best one I have, and use that instead. I sometimes > carry a one good used CV on long trips, as a spare. And I use a pretty > generous amount of that black moly grease i them, and they seem to last > 'forever' to me that way. > Based on what I read, I get the impression that many vanagon folk have a > vanagon, and no used or spare parts for it. ( I expect a slew of members > telling how many good used and spare parts they keep around, now that I > said > that. ) But I'm always reading about what parts to replace with new ones, > ..... > and half the time I'm thinking, 'well just try another one that you have > around' . Or just put on another good used one that's not fully throgh its > life cycle yet. > > Don, my attention would be drawn to the cv's that had 'foreign' balls put > in > them. > I most often find inner cv joints to give problems or wear, , more than > outers, generally. > > oh, one more thing. Running the van in the air and listening with a > listening device, on all the things that move, or turn, or do whatever > their > thing is. > Solid flat floor and good jack stands are required, and it can be a bit > dangerous, but ....... > I like a nice long hardwood stick, and I hold one end against the bearing > hub say, and the other against the flap of my ear, and listen. > You'd be surprised at what you can hear. > bearing rumble, injectors clicking, alternator bearings. insdie the > distributor .....you name it, if it moves internally, you can listen to it > this way. ( can't do CV's of course ) . > also............take your IR temp gun, and start looking for wheel > bearings > that are hotter than the rest of the wheel bearings, that sort of thing. > > 'Gathering clues' is the point. When something jumps out...........that's > where you direct your attention. And sounds like your cv's would like some > attention and love anyway. > scott > www.turbovans.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:52 PM > Subject: Faintly disturbing noises beginning behind...('84 inline gas VW > with 5sp) > > >> The noises are faint...and not really very disturbing yet..in fact, I may >> be >> imagining the noise or my ears may be deceiving me altogether. But I have >> another road trip planned for next weekend, involving some rapid and >> somewhat sustained high velocity back-country driving. For my own peace >> of >> mind, I want to check out a few things. >> This weekend, Saturday I boogied down the interstates about 300miles >> round >> trip to a bike race in Albany, Or. Going about 70mph for 2.5hrs each way. >> Sunday, another bike race up on Mt Hood..a short but steep commute, again >> at >> fairly high speeds..Not on the bike..in the van.. Lots of time to sit >> there, listening to all that whirring and buzzing going on during all >> that boring interstate driving...Didn't hear much this morning (quite >> cool >> at elevation and a fairly steady long uphill from sea level to 4400', >> then >> back downhill to home) But this morning, I had out my "Hawk-ears" and >> every >> seam in the pavement was drawing my attention.... >> At full cruising speed I can't hear much but when I cut back to loafing >> along speeds I "think" I am hearing some extra mechanical noises from the >> rear end of the bus/Van (for all you 'purists' who say a Vanagon is not a >> bus). I 'opine' something in the drive line..The trans seems fine.. no >> shifting or gearing problems..recent new Redline no metal >> filings...Probably >> not that. The wheels feel right..no play when you do a "wheel bearing >> push/pull test. Brakes redone about 5k miles ago, so that probably is not >> what I "may be" hearing. It is no different accelerating or >> decelerating..maybe slightly more pronounced under 'steady throttle' but >> no >> real load.....or maybe I can just hear it better...if indeed I am really >> hearing something significant and worrisome.. >> I did the CV joints last fall, maybe 15k miles ago..I am thinking it may >> be one (or more) of those. I had on hand and installed only two new ones, >> replaced two that were obviously shot. The others were kinda >> questionable...a little 'heat-blue' with some minor 'galling' and >> pitting >> on a couple of the balls, which I changed out with the better ones from >> the >> left over CVs. The cages looked serviceable... Reassembled everything >> and >> it sounded good (maybe till now?) and drove smooth. But now I am >> recalling >> those 'iffy' parts and thinking that may be what is starting to draw my >> 'ear'. >> Is there some way to 'test' the CVs without taking them out and looking >> again? That was a messy and long job that I would rather do (completely, >> this time) when I have all the parts in hand and no 'pending bicycle >> event >> deadline' like I have for next weekend. I will probably order ahead two >> more CVs and just plan on putting them in sometime soon. Until then, can >> I >> stick the van up on jackstands and run it in gear or push pull the axles, >> or >> pry them up and down to get an idea whether I might be about to lose a >> wheel >> or something? I am not worried about that really...the CV joints were >> much >> worse sounding before...but I can't recall if I ever heard just this >> 'exact >> sound' .. >> Anyone have any quick and dirty diagnostic tricks for something like >> this?.. >> Thanks, >> Don Hanson >


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