Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:11:04 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: No start, no codes ... usual stuff doesn't help.
In-Reply-To: <9f4608e90908151639q30296987t299b378357b44135@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hey Al,
Did you not hang the entrails on the door? ;-)
Nearly always works!!
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Al Knoll wrote:
> It's a 1989 SinghCrow with a subaru OBD1 engine management system. Last
> year at Mastercraft Motors, it was noticed that a code for bad starter
> voltage was set although the starter worked just fine while
> troubleshooting a different OxySensor problem.
>
> Curious, eh? Cleared the code an moved on. Bimeby I installed the
> excellent Westyventures starter upgrade. Worked fine, cranked fine, never
> failed until a trip to the eastern sierra back country. Then once, it
> failed to turn over. Second try, just fine. Later in the trip it happened
> again and this time it took three tries to crank it. Drove home from the
> fine excursion parking on downhills and having to use momentum starting
> twice. Got back, parked the van. Next day, started fine. I turned it off
> and tried a restart. Nada, no click, nothing but a dip in the measured
> battery voltage. Subsequent attempts ended in miserable failures. Strong
> language administered in both fractured Deutche and shattered Kanji, no
> result. Feathers, bones, chants...the usual stuff, no go.
>
> Consulted the muses and guruses, learned lots. Tested the ignition switch,
> fine. 12V right where it should be. Checked at the starter solenoid
> (relay) input ~10 V about what it should be if there was a current draw
> elsewhere. Hooked up the remote starter switch. Zoom - Zoom. So what
> could it be? Voltages seemed normal around the circuitry. Perhaps a weak
> battery? Charged it to 13.5 float still no zumzum. Also NO CODE set.
> (for those with Digijet/fant, codes are a step up from the vanagon ECU) .
> Out and under (plenty of shade there) and physically trace the red/black
> wire up to the front of the beast. No apparent melting, phlogistical traces
> or even questionable insulation found. (NTF). So now to trace from the
> pull off connector at the ignition lock/switch. First do the jumper bit
> just to be sure. Enough current is drawn through the steel jumper that it
> warms to the touch.
>
> Visually following the red/black behind the relay panel we come upon a
> curious CRIMP connector. Now Hans and Fritz and Dieter dont use yellow
> crimp connectors so it must be aftermarket, but why the no start.
>
> 11 years ago at the advice of my Ins Co, I had an alarm system installed
> that has an ignition disable feature. The details are that the solenoid
> drive current passes through a normally closed when not armed, relay
> contact, now 11 years and 100K+ miles old. This relay (Potter and
> Brumfield) not your average ChiCom substitute was tucked up out of sight
> above the relay panel I fetched it out and took a look at it externally no
> visible defect. Plugged it back in and ... Zoom Zoom! Hmmm. Second try,
> no zumzum. Called up the fine folks at Rocky Mt. Window tint (David
> (pieface) is the owner). Explained the symptom and he offered two spare
> relays and mentioned that I must have forgotten to replace the relay after
> the recommended 50Kmi. Sheepishly I promised to do better in the future,
> installed the replacement relay and ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM. Kept the suspect relay
> to be examined at leisure.
>
> Here's the failure scenario: The contacts degrade with corrosion over time
> and eventually fail intermittantly by not passing sufficent current to
> activate the solenoid. If you don't know about the mystery circuit you
> don't know where to search for the defect and end up with feathers, bones,
> chanting and so on and lack of zumzum.
>
> So if you have one of these recommended by your InsCo ignition disablers
> installed, check with the provider to see how it works and what components
> were added AND where they're physically located so when the day comes that
> your starting is inhibited by old age, decrepitation, entropy and corrosion
> you'll have a chance to fix the problem. Oh yeah, update the current
> path/schematic diagrams to include the extra circuitry and carry a spare
> whatever.
>
> Pensionerd , Got Zum!
>
>
>
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