Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:34:06 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Faintly disturbing noises beginning behind...('84 inline gas
VW with 5sp)
In-Reply-To: <037601ca1eda$2fc64ff0$6501a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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Tires that are on their way out will drive you crazy with noises like this.
Jim
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Scott Daniel -
Turbovans<scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> Here's how I test cv joint play with everything assembled :
> First, with van ( or bus if you prefer ) jacked up, grab an axle and slide
> it left and right.
> it should slide easily. This movement is the balls sliding in their
> grooves - you want them to slide nicely of course.
>
> next, ......in neutral with parking brake off, hold the axle firmly with a
> large pliers or vice grips. Hold it from ratating while you try to turn the
> trans flange on the inner end, and wheel/tire on the outer end. The idea
> being to discover rotational slope in the CV's. There's not suppossed to be
> any.
> 'some' is OK. If you hear clicking when you do that, it's probably worn and
> dry in there. Or, hold the wheel and rotate the axle.......just testing for
> rotational slop.
>
> I find that as long as they have good grease in them, even with play, then
> can work nicely.
> I recently had a nice New Zealander bloke here in my shop for a clutch issue
> I think - clutch and muffler, something like that. . During that process
> ........we found one of his innner cv's with more slop that I have ever seen
> in a CV - put it wasn't making noise at all, and that's not why the van even
> came here. We put in a much better good used one. Might have swapped an
> outer to the innner position too.
>
> I just asked today if anyone besides me thinks that the amount of grease
> suppled with a boot or cv kit is enough. I have seen MANY cv joints after a
> few years that didn't seem to have enough grease in them - like the grease
> evaporates almost. I use black moly grease.......what I call 'black slimey'
> .......I put in a pretty generous amount, filling the flange areas with
> grease, and plenty pushed into the balls of the cv with a putty knife, and
> some in the boot.
>
> I appreciate the creativity of using good used balls in a tired cv joint,
> and usually surfaces mate to each other, and doing that I would regard as a
> 'gotta keep moving and this is the only way to do it with what we have
> availiable right now' type of repair. I keep used CV joints around, and
> would just pick out the best one I have, and use that instead. I sometimes
> carry a one good used CV on long trips, as a spare. And I use a pretty
> generous amount of that black moly grease i them, and they seem to last
> 'forever' to me that way.
> Based on what I read, I get the impression that many vanagon folk have a
> vanagon, and no used or spare parts for it. ( I expect a slew of members
> telling how many good used and spare parts they keep around, now that I said
> that. ) But I'm always reading about what parts to replace with new ones,
> .....
> and half the time I'm thinking, 'well just try another one that you have
> around' . Or just put on another good used one that's not fully throgh its
> life cycle yet.
>
> Don, my attention would be drawn to the cv's that had 'foreign' balls put in
> them.
> I most often find inner cv joints to give problems or wear, , more than
> outers, generally.
>
> oh, one more thing. Running the van in the air and listening with a
> listening device, on all the things that move, or turn, or do whatever their
> thing is.
> Solid flat floor and good jack stands are required, and it can be a bit
> dangerous, but .......
> I like a nice long hardwood stick, and I hold one end against the bearing
> hub say, and the other against the flap of my ear, and listen.
> You'd be surprised at what you can hear.
> bearing rumble, injectors clicking, alternator bearings. insdie the
> distributor .....you name it, if it moves internally, you can listen to it
> this way. ( can't do CV's of course ) .
> also............take your IR temp gun, and start looking for wheel bearings
> that are hotter than the rest of the wheel bearings, that sort of thing.
>
> 'Gathering clues' is the point. When something jumps out...........that's
> where you direct your attention. And sounds like your cv's would like some
> attention and love anyway.
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:52 PM
> Subject: Faintly disturbing noises beginning behind...('84 inline gas VW
> with 5sp)
>
>
>> The noises are faint...and not really very disturbing yet..in fact, I may
>> be
>> imagining the noise or my ears may be deceiving me altogether. But I have
>> another road trip planned for next weekend, involving some rapid and
>> somewhat sustained high velocity back-country driving. For my own peace
>> of
>> mind, I want to check out a few things.
>> This weekend, Saturday I boogied down the interstates about 300miles
>> round
>> trip to a bike race in Albany, Or. Going about 70mph for 2.5hrs each way.
>> Sunday, another bike race up on Mt Hood..a short but steep commute, again
>> at
>> fairly high speeds..Not on the bike..in the van.. Lots of time to sit
>> there, listening to all that whirring and buzzing going on during all
>> that boring interstate driving...Didn't hear much this morning (quite
>> cool
>> at elevation and a fairly steady long uphill from sea level to 4400', then
>> back downhill to home) But this morning, I had out my "Hawk-ears" and
>> every
>> seam in the pavement was drawing my attention....
>> At full cruising speed I can't hear much but when I cut back to loafing
>> along speeds I "think" I am hearing some extra mechanical noises from the
>> rear end of the bus/Van (for all you 'purists' who say a Vanagon is not a
>> bus). I 'opine' something in the drive line..The trans seems fine.. no
>> shifting or gearing problems..recent new Redline no metal
>> filings...Probably
>> not that. The wheels feel right..no play when you do a "wheel bearing
>> push/pull test. Brakes redone about 5k miles ago, so that probably is not
>> what I "may be" hearing. It is no different accelerating or
>> decelerating..maybe slightly more pronounced under 'steady throttle' but
>> no
>> real load.....or maybe I can just hear it better...if indeed I am really
>> hearing something significant and worrisome..
>> I did the CV joints last fall, maybe 15k miles ago..I am thinking it may
>> be one (or more) of those. I had on hand and installed only two new ones,
>> replaced two that were obviously shot. The others were kinda
>> questionable...a little 'heat-blue' with some minor 'galling' and
>> pitting
>> on a couple of the balls, which I changed out with the better ones from
>> the
>> left over CVs. The cages looked serviceable... Reassembled everything
>> and
>> it sounded good (maybe till now?) and drove smooth. But now I am
>> recalling
>> those 'iffy' parts and thinking that may be what is starting to draw my
>> 'ear'.
>> Is there some way to 'test' the CVs without taking them out and looking
>> again? That was a messy and long job that I would rather do (completely,
>> this time) when I have all the parts in hand and no 'pending bicycle
>> event
>> deadline' like I have for next weekend. I will probably order ahead two
>> more CVs and just plan on putting them in sometime soon. Until then, can
>> I
>> stick the van up on jackstands and run it in gear or push pull the axles,
>> or
>> pry them up and down to get an idea whether I might be about to lose a
>> wheel
>> or something? I am not worried about that really...the CV joints were
>> much
>> worse sounding before...but I can't recall if I ever heard just this
>> 'exact
>> sound' ..
>> Anyone have any quick and dirty diagnostic tricks for something like
>> this?..
>> Thanks,
>> Don Hanson
>
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