Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:31 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: rear heater blowout - stranded
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response
let's try this :
Normally, in any car ( normal car, and not Subaru's ) ............the heater
circuit flow is either on ( like when you want heat ) or closed, when you
don't want any heat out of the heater.
If there is flow in the heater circuit, or if there is non-regulated full
time flow ( like replacing rear heater core and valve with a straight hose )
that circuit is doing a little 'cooling' ( though without a core or fins to
dissipate heat, not much heat will be removed by a straight hose of course )
, the thinking it, it could keep your thermostat from maintaining the engine
coolant temp up to proper warmth.
in the wintertime......you'll get faster warm up of the coolant, with the
heater circuit off. Wait for 5 to 8 minutes of driving to happen in the
winter before turning on the front heater valve. ( I just leave the rear
ones on so there is flow through the rear heater core - helps the heater
core to last longer I think, rather than old coolant just sitting in there
rotting, and not being circulated ) .
It probably doesn't matter all that much, but in theory, you don't want
heater circuit flow unless you want to pull heat out of the heater/s.
So probably, no harm is being done.
Warm up time might be a smidge longer is about all.
I see no reason to have a hose under the back seat myself, so I either plug
both hoses, or ......best deal is, remove the plastic or metal T's from the
coolant hoses, like by the transmission, under the van.
Those T's either just get brittle and break, or rust and leak, eventually
anyway, so I replace them with straight hose connectors - fewer
opportunities to leak that way.
and, fwiw, in Subaru engine conversions, if following Subaru's coolant flow
philosophy.............we do rig it so there is a small full time heater
circuit flow,
and it doesn't seem to matter much. Warm up time isn't too long, and
heater performance is OK.
In severely cold climates a more sophisticated arrangement than that is
needed for really good heater performance, and keeping the main engine temp
up to where it's nice n' warm, like 190 F ......that would be nice in
winter.
bottom line is : Normally you wouldn't - ( have full time heater circuit
flow in a waterboxer vanagon engine ) , and it may not hurt that much at all
if you do.
I'd still block them off, or better, remove the T's to the rear heater.
I like that extra room under the back seat too.
Hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mcneely" <mcneely4@COX.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: rear heater blowout - stranded
> Hmmmmmm ........ . So, by using the rear heater (creating a "free
> flowing alternative to the cooling circuit"), I would "compromise the
> thermostat's ability to get the engine up to operating temperature
> quickly and to maintain it there." This condition would be exacerbated
> by the fact that I'm doing this during cold ambient conditions, and
> removing heat from the circuit with a small, auxiliary radiator and fan
> (the rear heater).
>
> Since for most of us (me, for one) the cooling system seems to have the
> opposite problem (running too hot, not too cold), .... ,
>
> my confusion deepens, but I'm struggling to understand. More
> information, please. If my bypass is truly damaging my engine, I want
> to know. So far, I'm perplexed.
>
> Dave Mc
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:42 PM , Jake de Villiers wrote:
>
>> The heater circuit is not controlled by the thermostat. By creating a
>> free-flowing alternative to the cooling circuit you compromise the
>> thermostat's ability to get the engine up to operating temperature
>> quickly
>> and to maintain it there.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, if I have a pipe running between the two hoses, it just returns
>>> hot
>>> coolant to the engine. Understood. What's the problem? Is the
>>> thinking
>>> that the cooling capacity of the heater is important? But if the
>>> heater is
>>> not functioning (as in the valve on the heater is closed, the cooling
>>> capacity is not working. For that matter, is there even coolant
>>> there,
>>> unless I turn on the rear heater (thus opening a valve somewhere
>>> else)? Does
>>> coolant fill those hoses all the time, and only enter the heater if
>>> the
>>> valve on top of the heater is opened (by hand)? If so, why couldn't
>>> those
>>> who want to keep the heater under the seat (I don't, I want the
>>> space) just
>>> close the valve? I'm really confused now. Wasn't before.
>>>
>>> Dave Mc
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:22 PM , RICHARD KOERNER wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the best way is to plug & clamp both hoses to the heater, it
>>>> maximizes coolant flow up to the radiator. If you use a "pipe" to
>>>> connect
>>>> the hoses, it just returns hot coolant back to the engine. I'm not
>>>> sure
>>>> which is "in" and which is "out"....just plug both of them. I used
>>>> the
>>>> "pipe" method for years until Dennis Haynes and other gurus pointed
>>>> out that
>>>> plugging is better.
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>> 85 GL
>>>> San Diego
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave Mcneely Subject: Re: rear heater blowout - stranded
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 2:04 PM
>>>>
>>>> I have the rear heater removed from, and a pipe fitted to the hoses
>>>> to
>>>> connect one to the other. I'm not limping. Dave Mc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM , Matthew Snook wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm having an adventure...
>>>>>
>>>>> '84 Westy 1.9
>>>>> Currently parked roadside at Whitehorse Campground, Umpqua National
>>>>> Forest
>>>>> (that's Oregon) on highway 138
>>>>>
>>>>> Pulling the hill eastbound the temperature was running high but not
>>>>> critical, when I started smelling antifreeze. As I started making
>>>>> plans
>>>>> to
>>>>> pull the rear heater after I got home to Rocky Point (Klamath
>>>>> County) a
>>>>> gusher erupted under the rear bench seat, steaming all of my
>>>>> clothing and
>>>>> stranding me over a pool of coolant. For now, I hope. I passed
>>>>> the 3500
>>>>> foot mark, so I have another 1500-2000 ft climb before I'm on the
>>>>> downhill
>>>>> to Klamath Lake. :(
>>>>>
>>>>> I took the rear heater cover off, restarted the engine, and soon
>>>>> water
>>>>> and
>>>>> steam was coming from somewhere inside the heater unit. I can't
>>>>> see the
>>>>> leak directly. I tried setting the little lever on the passenger
>>>>> side of
>>>>> the unit back and forth, but it didn't seem to affect the output.
>>>>> My Bentley doesn't say which of the hoses is supply or return,
>>>>> upper or
>>>>> lower.
>>>>> Question: can I disconnect both hoses, clamp a stick in there to
>>>>> block
>>>>> the
>>>>> openings, and limp back home that way? Will there still be
>>>>> adequate flow
>>>>> of
>>>>> coolant through the rest of the system?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew Snook
>>>>> matt@snooksband.com
>>>>> 541.805.5133
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> 2201 Cedar Street
>>>>> La Grande OR 97850
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Beverley Anne de Villiers April 20, 1930 - July 4, 2009
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> 1984 Vanagon GL
>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>>
>> Crescent Beach, BC
>>
>> www.thebassspa.com
>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
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