Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:12:13 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: 2.1 heads
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I would hope that before someone goes asking about how to lower compression
ratio on a GW engine....( due to detonation ) they would have already
exhaust all leads with GW and trying higher octane fuels.
I mean, right ?
Be nice to hear what the original poster says on that.
and ......does it 'ping' ? is that the issue ?
< Please note ! this is not a rant, or a big slam on waterboxer engines.
It's a fascinating, to me, statement and comparison about what we have to
work with here, with a notion or hope towards making our Vanagons even more
awesome then they already are !~ I'm stating facts, not carrying on about
how lame waterboxers are or anything like that thank you. >
Usually the only way you correct that - pinging,..........., the two main
things you have to work with are timing and timing curve, and fuel octane,
including octane boosting additives. Racing gasoline is nice high octane ,
but very expensive.
It might be worth trying it on a few gallons of racing gasoline, just to
test the theory that the problem can be corrected with just higher octane,
not that that would be a solution, but that it would verify that
'considering octane' is one path that leads to a solution, even if it's not
a practical one.
This is might be a great example why knock sensor ignition is so good, and
on most modern cars I'm pretty sure. My 88 740 Volvo has it.
VW inline four gas engines from the mid 90's have it, etc.
And also how sometimes, you can't quite get from 'here' to 'there' without
higher technology, like much mo' betta electronic engine management.
Waterboxer fuel injection is quite crude compare to say .........what Subaru
has with their 2.2 engine starting in 1990.
Not to go talking about that engine or conversion .........but there are , I
can think of, at least 3 things right off the top of my head, engine
management and electronics- wise, that those engines, and all the subaru
engines after that have, that the waterboxer engine management doesn't have,
and that poses either limitations, or at least, bi challenges.
If I had the time, I think I could retro fit Soobie fuel injection to a
waterboxer engine, including Air Mass Meter, Sequential Fuel Injection, and
knock sensor igntioin with no distributor, all of which the soobie uses, and
hadn't even been thought of very much when the waterboxer engine came out in
1983 in 1.9, then slightly upgraded for the 2.1 in 1986. Compared to what
is available now, that system offers pretty crude engine management.
So what is the real problem ? it pings ?
and of course, has GW been consulted and bugged about it, and several
different brands of gasoline have been tried, and the highest octane you can
get, and the timing's been fiddled with ? ??
Sorry to mention this even more ......but another much mo' betta thing
Subaru uses, compared to any waterboxer engine is......the timing is
completely managed by the ECU. There is no way to adjust the timing. The ECU
is completely smart about it, always optimizing the timing since it can
detect knock, and retard as needed, even many times a second. Waterboxer
engine management can't get anywhere near that. It's completely crude, and
thus limiting, in comparison.
So 'maybe' this is a semi-unfixable problem, but I sure hope not !!
With good money invested in that GW engine.......you sure wanted it working
right. I hope that's easily achievable here.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Streib" <streib@CS.INDIANA.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: 2.1 heads
> Is he using Premium gas? The higher compression GW engines call for
> premium gasoline.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1991 Vanagon GL
>
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:04 -0400, "Ian Allan" <ian.allan@BMTS.COM> wrote:
>> I have a friend who purchased a van with a Go Westy 2.4 engine. The
>> engine has suffered from detonation issues among other things. Any
>> ideas as to practical machining processes to REDUCE the compression
>> ratio?
>>
>> Ian
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