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Date:         Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:39:10 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: waterboxer pinging
Comments: To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

Wow, you can buy alcohol free gas ? Wish I could here in Oregon. As far as I can tell so far, alcohol in the gasoline here isn't optional. All the gas pumps say, right on them, 'may contain up to 10 % alcohol."

I would not say that waterboxers engines are 'sensitive to fuel quality' myself. Not more than any other car. In all my waterboxers .........I use ordinary unleaded regular, even the cheaper Arco once in a while. Nary a problem ever.

I missed a few posts, so maybe I missed what the compression ratio is on this GW engine - still curious about that.

The typical 'easy test' for octane requirement when you have pinging, is to try higher octane fuel. I wonder if that's been tried. Sounds to me it's a matter of getting the right fuel for this engine, octane wise, and 'alcohol or not' wise. and of course there is tune and timing, and timing curve, to consider - they have a big affect on whether it pings or not.

and that makes me wonder if the timing curve of the ignition system is bone stock, or has been modified to match this larger displacement, and evidently higher compression ratio waterboxer engine. You could have, say, fine timing at idle and low rpm, but too much timing at higher rpm's, if the Timing Curve is not well matched to the engine's requirements.

I hope we get this figured out here so David can get back to Vanagon bliss ! Scott

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake de Villiers" <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:47 AM Subject: Re: waterboxer pinging

> 'The West' is a mighty big place. > > In my sub-region of 'The West', from Alberta to British Columbia to > Washington and Oregon, regular gas is 87 Octane - alcohol is optional. > > Jake > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote: > >> Well, that sounds definitive. I was hoping for a reply that would >> enlighten me a little more, however. VW clearly recommends minimum >> octane 87. Gasoline in the West is clearly lower octane than that (on >> reasonable theoretical, and I suppose data driven, grounds). Numerous >> folks, including some with claimed technical expertise, state that the >> waterboxer is subject to detonation knock (ping) and that the octane >> value of the gasoline used is iffy in that regard. Consequently these >> folks recommend higher octane gasoline. If they are wrong, I'd like to >> know how we know that. If they are right, I definitely don't want to >> waste my money. I'd just like to understand it a little better. I >> certainly believe that pinging would be less noticeable in a vanagon >> than in a vehicle with the engine right in front of the driver. For >> driving in Oklahoma, I pay the extra for alcohol free gasoline. Is that >> a waste of money also? Actually, for my other cars, I concluded that I >> would pay up to but not more than $0.06 per gallon more. That was >> arbitrary. Given the alleged propensity of the waterboxer to be >> sensitive to gasoline quality (and VW's admonition in the manual to use >> alcohol free gasoline if possible), for that vehicle, I always pay >> whatever extra I have to to get alcohol free fuel, where it is >> available. >> >> Any explanation will be considered helpful. >> >> David McNeely >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:18 PM , Richard A Jones wrote: >> >> And, am I just wasting my >>>> money, as most auto manufacturers state, when I pay extra for the >>>> higher >>>> octane stuff when out west? >>>> >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> Richard >>> >> > > > -- > Jake > > 1984 Vanagon GL > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie" > > Crescent Beach, BC > > www.thebassspa.com > www.crescentbeachguitar.com > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27


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