Date:         Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:53:48 -0400
Reply-To:     "Jack R." <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Jack R." <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks
In-Reply-To:  <BLU0-SMTP39EE6CA996410F846F0890DAE10@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

OK... my 2 cents on this, I consider myself a good shopper of not only
service, but parts.

So, I shopped for a mechanic who charges actual hours spent on the job, not
to exceed the "book" hours!
AND, he provides ALL parts at his cost!  No hidden fees, he is typically 20%
faster than the "book"
And, his parts price is as good or better than anything I can find on-line
or off.
He also recommends brands and parts which he has had a better track record
with.

I gladly pay him $80 an hour for his work, and recommend his shop to
everyone I know!

He is fare, honest, and even lets me watch (but if I ask too many questions,
it approaches the "book" hours)!

No hidden profit, fees or hours... and he makes a good living covering his
cost.
If the job is simple, he will even offer to put an apprentice on the job for
$60 per hour, with him supervising if and when needed.
I usually opt for the expert, since the apprentice usually takes every bit
of the "book" hours, and I feel like supporting this great guy!






-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Keith Hughes
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:19 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks

> ------------------------------
> Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:39:12 -0400
> From:    eric ley <eric_ley@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks
>
> One more little tidbit on the Mechanics side of it. A few years ago here
in
> Quebec
>  a customer brought his own spark plugs into our shop to install on his
car.
> We
> said no problem checked the gap installed the plugs, three days later the
> car
> comes back to the shop on a tow truck. We check the car, the motor is
toast.
> The customer decides it is our fault as we installed the wrong type of
plugs
> in
> his car. We go to court with the customer Judge decides that it is our
fault
> as
> we should have taken the time to call and find out if these were indeed
the
> exact
> plug that went into this car. Long story short we had to pay for the
towing
> twice
> and for the rebuild of the motor at another shop. We normally charge 65 a
> hour to
> work on cars but if you bring your own it jumps to 90.00 a hour as we have
> to
> guarantee the job. And we are considering putting it higher as we are one
of
> the
> few garages in the area that still agrees to install customer parts.
>
Sorry for the long post - but this issue never seems to die, and people
just don't seem to be able to get they're minds around the reality of
how such businesses work.

Well, the problem in this instance is that you *were* providing a
professional repair service, and are thus expected to do due diligence
on the repair irrespective of the customers ignorance.  The customer,
unfortunately, is entitled to be ignorant, that's why they are using
your professional services.  Back in my pro wrench-twisting days (long
gone thankfully) I'd never put in a customer part without making sure it
was the right part.  If they wanted hotter plugs, for example, we put on
the work order something to the effect of "Installation of customer
supplied non-approved parts voids all parts, labor, and incidental
damage warranties", and made the customer sign it.  They invariably went
away mad, without the work, or had us install the correct parts.  That said;

Yes, shops make money on parts, that's part of the business model.  The
problem comes in (and it did so frequently) when a customer calls up and
say's "how much for water pump job on XYZ?", we tell him its $X for
labor, and $Y for parts.  *Then* he shows up with his own pump (and
usually - back then - a super cheesy Checker rebuild), and wants the job
done for $X,  with a full warranty.  When they did that, we'd just tell
them that the job, as quoted, assumed $Z profit on the pump, so that
would be added to the labor cost.  We'd warranty installation, but if
the pump died a block down the road, they were out of luck, and that was
stated on the work order the customer signed.  Now, IF the customer
called and said "I've got a water pump I want installed on XYZ, how
much?" we'd give him the total price, and tell 'em there'd be no
warranty on the part.  If that was OK, and the customer was willing to
sign the work order that stated as much, then we'd use his parts.  And
yes, we *always* checked the parts before starting the work - far too
many times people would show up with the wrong parts.

People need to understand a few things here: One, is that when you get a
quote for a *JOB*, it's quoted as a total package price.  Even though it
may be broken down into parts and labor, if you get a $400 quote for the
job, you can't expect to cherry pick out parts that appear to be too
expensive, and expect that the remaining parts will be honored at the
same price.  E.g. you call a painter and he quotes you $3K to paint your
house, $2K labor and $1K for paint.  You find you can get the same paint
for $200, so you have it waiting when he shows up to paint - and you now
expect him to do the job for $2K?  Won't happen.  Why?  Because he's a
crook?  No, because he quoted the job to make $2800, and you're trying
to take $800 out of his pocket.  *You* are trying to change the terms of
*his* quote, and you don't have that right.  You have a right to not
accept his quote, or to negotiate for a better rate if he's willing, but
not to change it strictly for your benefit and expect him to accept it.
That's just business.  Same thing happens in my consulting/contracting
business;  a client on the Northeast coast calls for a quote for a
10-day project.  We give them a quote for $X that factors in the
airfare, car, hotel, 10 days labor, and two full travel days (that's
what it takes from Phoenix to the Northeast).  Client now decides, well
that's too much, so he only needs me for 3 days, so now expects the
price to be $0.3X - but my travel time hasn't changed, and my airfare
hasn't changed, so my per/hour profit has now dropped by 70%.  When that
happens, we say sorry, we'll send you a new quote and this time its
$0.6X - twice what the client expects, but it's the same hourly rate we
originally quoted.  Same with the mechanic, his payroll hasn't changed,
nor his rent, utilities, taxes, etc., so you can't expect the labor rate
to be the same if he loses the parts profit.  When he quotes you
labor+parts, that's all that quote is good for - his labor installing
his parts.  Second, is that shops don't cater to Vanagons (in general)
or to specific customers; they make their business rules for the
clientele as a whole, so you can't expect different rules for Vanagon
owners because their parts are harder to find.  If anything, this just
takes more and more shops out of the vanagon repair business.  They
often can't afford to have space taken up for days or weeks while they
wait for parts to come special order from the dealer, or from an on-line
vendor (most shops I know of won't order online because of the time - if
the part is wrong, and the van is down for an extra 2-3 days, the
customer is typically NOT very understanding).  It's much easier to say
"sorry, we don't work on vanagons".  And Thirdly, customers will
*invariably* fault the shop's installation for failure of their part.
In the case of the water  pump example above, since Checker gives a
'lifetime' warranty, the customer expects the pump will last forever.
When it loses the impeller in 2 months, he just knows that the shop
screwed it up, and expects them to warranty the labor for replacing it.
Virtually all of these customers have either little or no mechanical
knowledge (yes, vanagon owners are typically more knowledgeable - of
necessity - than the public in general, but again the shop isn't going
to have "vanagon" rules and "other vehicle" rules), so their reaction is
always that "my new part broke so you must've screwed it up".  So the
shop is always taking the risk of this type of hassle (mad customer, BBB
complaints, etc.) every time they install owner supplied parts.

So...if you want to supply your own parts (and yes, I have as well) then
just make sure you include that in the scope of the job when you ask for
a quote, and understand that there will likely be no warranty on the
part, and if the part fails, no warranty on the labor to R&R the part,
and everyone in the process can be happy.  You'll likely still save some
money, since a portion of the parts markup really covers labor for R&R
of the occasional defective part (although shops typically go with
suppliers they have a track record with, and thus expect virtually no
failures - quite unlike the crapshoot of owner supplied parts).

Keith Hughes
'86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)