Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:18:48 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks
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reply-type=response
Glad people are getting straight about the various factors about installing
customer supplied parts.
My policy is very simple......
I just explain, as soon as they supply the part, I am responsible for the
correct installation of the part, and that's it. And most definitely am not
responsible for the result produced.
If they want the right result, then they tell me what problem they are
having, I check it all out, make my recommendations, then we decide together
what to do ...........and then we do the work, with parts I supply, and I am
responsible for how the whole thing works out - that the desired result is
accomplished, and it lasts well, etc.
No big deal there.
I will say though, that with some people, and perhaps with people in some
areas,
no matter HOW MANY times I say 'you are getting this, but not that or that'
and they agree to and understand that, and say so 10 times, there are still
some people that will blame when it doesn't work out. That's how shops get
leery - people did not keep the agreement they made......
and then the shops get into their 'only parts we supply' thing.
So be careful there - even if they do agree, they might not remember what
they agreed to when their el cheapo parts don't work out.
and wanted to comment on this :
"when a customer calls up and> say's "how much for water pump job on XYZ?"
YOU NEVER QUOTE A PRICE OVER THE PHONE !!!
When I get that question .......a stranger with a strange car , "how much is
XYZ job ? "
the first thing I tell them is I'm not trying to be the least expensive shop
around, so best to check elsewhere.
I do try to do the very best work though ...............which is why you
want me fixing your car.
And .........it may not even need what you think it needs ( this is quite
common actually ) .
So we don't even know if that's what it really needs ( say a water pump ) or
.......
yes, it could need a w. pump and 5 more things.
Can't really say until I see the car.
I can give you a Price Range for waterpump jobs on that type of car yes, but
a quote ..........
over the phone, not having seen the job - that's crazy ! You loose money
doing that, or at the least, you cause bad feelings when you say water pump
jobs on your XYZ is $ 200 and after you see the car and the job, have to
tell them it's more.
Never give a price quote on the phone.
It's also not a good sign that price is their first concern.
Their first concern should be............quality of the work and parts, and
in my world, that it's a fair transaction for both parties.
Scott
turbovans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Hughes" <keithahughes@Q.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:39:12 -0400
>> From: eric ley <eric_ley@HOTMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Mechanics using customer supplied parts.. Was bars leaks
>>
>> One more little tidbit on the Mechanics side of it. A few years ago here
>> in
>> Quebec
>> a customer brought his own spark plugs into our shop to install on his
>> car.
>> We
>> said no problem checked the gap installed the plugs, three days later the
>> car
>> comes back to the shop on a tow truck. We check the car, the motor is
>> toast.
>> The customer decides it is our fault as we installed the wrong type of
>> plugs
>> in
>> his car. We go to court with the customer Judge decides that it is our
>> fault
>> as
>> we should have taken the time to call and find out if these were indeed
>> the
>> exact
>> plug that went into this car. Long story short we had to pay for the
>> towing
>> twice
>> and for the rebuild of the motor at another shop. We normally charge 65 a
>> hour to
>> work on cars but if you bring your own it jumps to 90.00 a hour as we
>> have
>> to
>> guarantee the job. And we are considering putting it higher as we are one
>> of
>> the
>> few garages in the area that still agrees to install customer parts.
>>
> Sorry for the long post - but this issue never seems to die, and people
> just don't seem to be able to get they're minds around the reality of
> how such businesses work.
>
> Well, the problem in this instance is that you *were* providing a
> professional repair service, and are thus expected to do due diligence
> on the repair irrespective of the customers ignorance. The customer,
> unfortunately, is entitled to be ignorant, that's why they are using
> your professional services. Back in my pro wrench-twisting days (long
> gone thankfully) I'd never put in a customer part without making sure it
> was the right part. If they wanted hotter plugs, for example, we put on
> the work order something to the effect of "Installation of customer
> supplied non-approved parts voids all parts, labor, and incidental
> damage warranties", and made the customer sign it. They invariably went
> away mad, without the work, or had us install the correct parts. That
> said;
>
> Yes, shops make money on parts, that's part of the business model. The
> problem comes in (and it did so frequently) when a customer calls up and
> say's "how much for water pump job on XYZ?", we tell him its $X for
> labor, and $Y for parts. *Then* he shows up with his own pump (and
> usually - back then - a super cheesy Checker rebuild), and wants the job
> done for $X, with a full warranty. When they did that, we'd just tell
> them that the job, as quoted, assumed $Z profit on the pump, so that
> would be added to the labor cost. We'd warranty installation, but if
> the pump died a block down the road, they were out of luck, and that was
> stated on the work order the customer signed. Now, IF the customer
> called and said "I've got a water pump I want installed on XYZ, how
> much?" we'd give him the total price, and tell 'em there'd be no
> warranty on the part. If that was OK, and the customer was willing to
> sign the work order that stated as much, then we'd use his parts. And
> yes, we *always* checked the parts before starting the work - far too
> many times people would show up with the wrong parts.
>
> People need to understand a few things here: One, is that when you get a
> quote for a *JOB*, it's quoted as a total package price. Even though it
> may be broken down into parts and labor, if you get a $400 quote for the
> job, you can't expect to cherry pick out parts that appear to be too
> expensive, and expect that the remaining parts will be honored at the
> same price. E.g. you call a painter and he quotes you $3K to paint your
> house, $2K labor and $1K for paint. You find you can get the same paint
> for $200, so you have it waiting when he shows up to paint - and you now
> expect him to do the job for $2K? Won't happen. Why? Because he's a
> crook? No, because he quoted the job to make $2800, and you're trying
> to take $800 out of his pocket. *You* are trying to change the terms of
> *his* quote, and you don't have that right. You have a right to not
> accept his quote, or to negotiate for a better rate if he's willing, but
> not to change it strictly for your benefit and expect him to accept it.
> That's just business. Same thing happens in my consulting/contracting
> business; a client on the Northeast coast calls for a quote for a
> 10-day project. We give them a quote for $X that factors in the
> airfare, car, hotel, 10 days labor, and two full travel days (that's
> what it takes from Phoenix to the Northeast). Client now decides, well
> that's too much, so he only needs me for 3 days, so now expects the
> price to be $0.3X - but my travel time hasn't changed, and my airfare
> hasn't changed, so my per/hour profit has now dropped by 70%. When that
> happens, we say sorry, we'll send you a new quote and this time its
> $0.6X - twice what the client expects, but it's the same hourly rate we
> originally quoted. Same with the mechanic, his payroll hasn't changed,
> nor his rent, utilities, taxes, etc., so you can't expect the labor rate
> to be the same if he loses the parts profit. When he quotes you
> labor+parts, that's all that quote is good for - his labor installing
> his parts. Second, is that shops don't cater to Vanagons (in general)
> or to specific customers; they make their business rules for the
> clientele as a whole, so you can't expect different rules for Vanagon
> owners because their parts are harder to find. If anything, this just
> takes more and more shops out of the vanagon repair business. They
> often can't afford to have space taken up for days or weeks while they
> wait for parts to come special order from the dealer, or from an on-line
> vendor (most shops I know of won't order online because of the time - if
> the part is wrong, and the van is down for an extra 2-3 days, the
> customer is typically NOT very understanding). It's much easier to say
> "sorry, we don't work on vanagons". And Thirdly, customers will
> *invariably* fault the shop's installation for failure of their part.
> In the case of the water pump example above, since Checker gives a
> 'lifetime' warranty, the customer expects the pump will last forever.
> When it loses the impeller in 2 months, he just knows that the shop
> screwed it up, and expects them to warranty the labor for replacing it.
> Virtually all of these customers have either little or no mechanical
> knowledge (yes, vanagon owners are typically more knowledgeable - of
> necessity - than the public in general, but again the shop isn't going
> to have "vanagon" rules and "other vehicle" rules), so their reaction is
> always that "my new part broke so you must've screwed it up". So the
> shop is always taking the risk of this type of hassle (mad customer, BBB
> complaints, etc.) every time they install owner supplied parts.
>
> So...if you want to supply your own parts (and yes, I have as well) then
> just make sure you include that in the scope of the job when you ask for
> a quote, and understand that there will likely be no warranty on the
> part, and if the part fails, no warranty on the labor to R&R the part,
> and everyone in the process can be happy. You'll likely still save some
> money, since a portion of the parts markup really covers labor for R&R
> of the occasional defective part (although shops typically go with
> suppliers they have a track record with, and thus expect virtually no
> failures - quite unlike the crapshoot of owner supplied parts).
>
> Keith Hughes
> '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)
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