Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:05:18 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Cleaning up your Vanagon
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response
I believe the Zetec runs quite cleanly.
They'd have to given what year engines are used - as long as there's a good
cat, oxygen sensor etc.
Jim is pretty thorough, I can't imagine he'd turn out not quite
emissions-legal conversions.
'The Issue' in CA is that those are OBD-II engines and emissions systems.
CARB et all in Ca are adamant that 'OBD-II engine conversions are not legal
or allowed'.
So they just flat nixed him on that technical rule - as far as producing and
selling a truly legal and certified engine conversion kit in Ca is
concerned., as I understand it.
IF California had any real brains, they would PAY owners of 80 and 90's era
vanagons and cars to put in late model engines ......
which put out far less bad stuff out the tailpipe, and get better fuel
mileage.
it is only Ca's bureaucratic stubbornness that's any real problem.
Technically ............there's nothing wrong really, and everything better,
in terms of lower emissions and better fuel economy.......... for probably
all piston engines from the 2000's - considerably advanced over what stock
vanagon can deliver. Emissions wise, my WAG would be on the order of at
least 40 % reduction in bad stuff out the tail pipe. Fuel mileage is on the
order of 10 % better ( speaking only gasoline here ).- would be my
guestimate.
'Passing' and being a legal conversion are two entirely different things in
Ca.
Some states just sniff the tail pipe. They don't even care or wonder what
engine is in the van- they just see what comes out the tail pipe, and it
it's good, you pass. Done deal. Nothing complicated.
I've been a certified smog technician in Ca once upon a time. I dealt with
many many customer's cars, plus my own going through their system.
Believe me.......it's like the military - what is reasonable and practical
does not apply ~!
'what the rule book says' is what they go by.
I have seen a smog shop fail a car for as simple a thing as seeing that a
vacuum line has a ( factory installed and part of the emissions system )
small restrictor in it.
They saw that, they failed the car.
I asked them........if you didn't think that little part belonged on there,
why didn't you remove it ?
the answer - "we're not allowed to."
Real helpful for the consumer all right !!
In a Ca smog test, they don't sniff the tail pipe first.
They do a visual inspection to see if the car has all the required equipment
on it.
If they see that your gasoline filler neck is missing the restrictor that
only allows the smaller unleaded fuel nozzle to fit in, they fail the
vehicle right there.
And don't even sniff the tail pipe.
it's all about niggly details, and not AT ALL about what is practical or
reasonable.
And definitely, some smog techs will give someone a break over a small
detail, some Smog Referees can and do do what is reasonable and practical
Technically, OBD-II Subaru Conversions are not truly really legal, but a
reassemble smog Ref, on a good day, for a well done conversion, that' looks
right and sniffs right .........they'll give those their blessing .
But they also can say if they want .( this happened to me on a perfectly
running and sniffing SVX Syncro Westy I was selling for a client )
..........'well, those aren't Kennedy Certified Headers. We are willing to
overlook that it's not the same transmission that the engine came with
originally,............but with those headers, we can take your 70 bucks
and fail you, or you can just go now for free. "
-
in case anyone doesn't know ..........'the one true' 1000 % legal engine
conversion for Vanagons in CA is the 1990 to 1994 Subaru 2.2 You can go to
CARB's website, and look at their Executive Orders ......
which are legally certified engine modifications and kits.
There's Dinan, of BMW tuner fame ...........( $ 12K for a pumped up Bimmer
engine with them would be just 'medium grade' ) ....
there's GM ,
and there is Hobart Kennedy, and KEP ......and the 2.2 conversion. He went
to the trouble to get it legally certified in Ca. All the other ones are
technically.............. if they feel good that day, see you made a great
effort to do it right, and it sniffs well.........they get passed, but in
the strictest letter of the rules, ..........anything other than that KEP
2.2 kit isn't truly truly legal there, regardless of how bling the
installation is, and how clean the tail pipe, or if it gets 50 % better fuel
mileage.
Never expect government and any huge organization to make real sense -
it's apparently not possible. Not making sense is one way they justify
their existence anyway. Whoops ! .......too nvc !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mcneely" <mcneely4@COX.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning up your Vanagon
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Bob Stevens wrote:
>
>> "One quibble. Is the Zetec cleaner?
>> I've heard that it cannot pass California emissions test. Waterboxers
>> properly maintained pass, don't they?"
>> Look at the engine data on the Bostig website instead of using "I've
>> heard".
>> Not even close. There ARE NO CURRENT ENGINE CONVERSIONS THAT BURN/SMOG
>> DIRTIER THAN A WASSERBOXER. None.
>> Not having the CARB sticker has nothing to do with the Zetec not being
>> an
>> allowed Calif. conversion option, just like the Subaru 2.5 hasn't.
>
> Well, where I heard that was on this list. But, not being a
> Californian, I did not know that it was the simple fact of it being a
> Frankovan that prevented the passing. So, it's not the emissions per
> se, but not being factory. Hmmm.
>
> Thanks for informing me.
>
> Dave Mc
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