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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:03:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <>
From:         Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Maps vs GPS
Comments: To: Al Knoll <>
In-Reply-To:  <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I love maps. I make half my living doing maps. But here's the deal:

Maps are more fun to look at, and let you think you know where you are.

GPS: less fun, but you know where you are.


On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Al Knoll <> wrote: > In MY vanagon the right seat driver is mostly a go to here, turn, go to the > next here, turn, go past the alligator hide nailed to a stump then turn left > at the end of the fence. > > The left seat driver uses a more arcane go north 5.1 miles to y > street...then east  3.4 miles to x..... Descartes would be proud of that. > > It's merely a relative and and absolute comparison.  Back in the vector > graphics days one had the concept of current position and pen up, pen down > and move.  The results depend on the accuracy of the previous move.  The > minor errors accumulate, the major errors are disastrous.  Miss one turn and > the whole sequence is invalid. > > An absolute method does not accumulate errors along the way.  The Descartes > goal seeking GPS method although distasteful to many as too geeky does not > accumulate error.  It's absolute vector based rather than incremental > position based and lends itself to long distance routing without the danger > of accumulated error and having the additional feature of easily correcting > course errors along the way.  Charlie Trimble is my friend from days at HP > Santa Clara Division. > > Back to the warm rock. > > Pensionerd. > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Robert Fisher <> wrote: > >> Different wiring produces different results. I've read several times that >> women navigate more by land marks rather than by directions, number of >> turns >> etc. which is more in the way that men do it. If she can see the Lane >> Bryant >> and the 7-11, she'll have confidence she's in the right area, at least. >> A friend of mine from high school became her class valedictorian and went >> on >> to be one of the first women in the world to get a PhD in her field. She >> basically made it through Geometry and Physics because of my help (we >> worked >> in groups); she couldn't think in 3-D or deal with vectors and so on at >> all. >> On the other hand, I made it through (physics, anyway) because I foolishly >> got into it without the required advanced math, which she did have. She >> wound up with the better grades too, of course. >> >> I think maps are a developed or taught skill for most people. I've seen as >> many men as women get completely flummoxed by a map. Despite their (former) >> ubiquity, many people just don't know how they work, and god forbid they'd >> read the instructions, since they're usually lost/in a hurry and therefore >> under pressure to boot. >> Then there's the aforementioned ability to reverse left/right and >> top/bottom >> in your mind when you're driving south and so on- I don't know how well one >> can learn that. >> >> A lot of the popularity of GPS is in the same forces that drive the >> popularity of Toyotas and diet pills; most people have neither the interest >> nor the time for bootstrapping a problem the hard way. That's not >> necessarily a bad thing in of itself, considering how often those same >> people have trouble even with the easy way. On the other hand, it once took >> me 7 hours to make the 2.5 hour trip home from L.A. (with three kids in the >> car) because of an overturned tanker on the 405. I would've given a >> port-side accessory for a GPS that afternoon, and I wasn't even close to >> lost, just ignorant of the alternative routes. I had to stop at a HellMart >> and sneak a look at a Thomas Guide. : / >> >> Cya, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [] On Behalf Of >> Rocket J Squirrel >> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:11 AM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Maps vs GPS >> >>  Hi Jim, >> >> Interpreting route directions, like the sample provided, is not difficult >> for Mrs Squirrel, although the directions she gets from her women friends >> often contain extraneous detail like, "Turn right on 3rd street and after >> a while you'll pass a gas station on the left, then a big red house after >> that. You'll come to an intersection with stoplights, go straight through >> that, then turn left at Concord, which has a Lane Bryant and a 7-11." >> >> "Why not just say `Go north on 3rd for 2 miles, then left on Concord'," I >> ask. >> >> "We like to make sure we're going the right way," is her response. >> >> So despite different styles, Mrs Squirrel can follow route information >> fine. Reading a map, however, does cause her considerable confusion. >> >> -- >> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott >> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") >> 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) >> Bend, OR >> KG6RCR >> >> >> >> On 10/9/2009 5:59 PM Jim Arnott wrote: >> >> > I use GPS to get me from this house to that address. I use dead tree >> > maps when I need to get from here to about there. Miss Lisa is a fine >> > map reader/navigator. Though she and I differ on how to fold a map. >> > >> > Mr Squirrel, you need to spend a bit more time teaching your primary >> > navigator how to interpret route instructions.  Maybe see if there is a >> > rally club in Bend. A couple TSD rallies under her belt and you'd never >> > complain again. Nor have reason to. (of course, your marriage might well >> > not survive....) >> > >> > Jim >> > >> > Sample: >> > >> > 0.00      1. Right out of parking >> > 0.32     2. Left at stop. >> > 8.91     10. Right at T. >> > 9.42     11. Right after "Stop" >> > 10.07     12. End odometer check at "35". CAST 37 >> >           13. Right onto Palm Ave. >> >           14. Right after "State Rd 7". CAST 44 >> >           15. Right after State Rd 7. >> >           16. "NW 5th". CAST 32. >> >           17. Right onto unpaved. >> >           18. Right on 2nd paved road. >> >           19. Pause 30 seconds at TCL. >> > 21.30     20. Left. >> >           21. Pause 1.00 min. at stop. >> >           22. Left. >> >           23. etc. >> > >> > >> < >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Oct 9, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote: >> > >> >> Yeah -- what's up with that? Not to paint with too broad a brush, but >> can >> >> women within one standard deviation of the median read a map? None of my >> >> three wives has ever known how to read a map. >> > >> > >> >

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