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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 2009 07:24:11 -0800
Reply-To:     Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Sliding Door Handle Part?
Comments: To: Tom Buese <tombuese@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To:  <475A8A3E-F394-4AF8-A0F2-550A260E9682@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 11/8/2009 8:48 PM Tom Buese wrote:

> > On Nov 8, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:

>> So it's non-standard for the sliding door's inner panel to be held in >> place with about 10 oval-head screws in dress washers? No clips, no >> hidden bits? > > I am talking about the yellow 1/8"- thick exposed panel-is that the > "inner panel" you are referring to?

Yep, that's it. I reckon I should have been calling it the trim panel (just found it in Bentley's).

> If so, the stock panel is held on w/ > PITA exposed plastique clip thingys, not screws like early split window > buses(pre 1965) that you are describing on your 84? Later vanagon > westies have the non visible clips, like most door panels nowadays.

Well, I'll be hornswoggled.* No clips here. The panel is made of 1/8'' composite board. Holes needed for handle stems are rather crudely cut. The nearside (visible side) of the panel is covered with thin beige vinyl wrapped around and glued to the farside.

When mounting, the top edge is held in place by an ivory-colored plastic channel fastened to the door into which the panel is slipped. Self-tapping sheet metal screws (oval head, with dress washers) hold the other three edges of the panel in place.

The holes that the screws go into are clearly drilled, not stamped like all the other holes. Detective work is fun.

Heck, I thought this was original equipment. It looks pretty acceptable when assembled. Bentley's does not provide an illustration of the early model trim panel, just the later one. Page 70.3

> Yep, sounds like the PO had to access the handle like you are, trashed > some of the clips, & replaced them all w/ screws after fixing the door > handle & putting a 85 & later escutcheon on as the early ones are NLA or > hard to come by [...]

I think you nailed the head with the hit.

But here's the thing: this part here has part number 251.843.711 stamped on it. BD shows this as the P/N for the "escutcheon," used on later vans.

But it does not resemble the picture of the escutcheon as shown in Bentley's on page 58.18. It looks like the "trim ring" for the earlier models shown on page 58.2.

So I'm wondering whether anyone can determine whether VW used the same part number for both pieces?

See, I'm thinking that if the P/Ns are the same, then I have an early model Trim Ring, not the later model Escutcheon. I clearly have the early model handle because it's been mentioned that the later model ones do not work on the early doors w/o modification. No sign of modification here. So if I got an early handle and its stock trim ring, then I am missing the "seal" (page 58.2) which VW doubtless put there to perform some sort of sealing function, and I might try to find one.

> I would take a pic, but I am out the door tomorrow 0 dark Thirty for > Maui again.

Have a great time!

==================== * Still looking for my swoggling horn.

-- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) Bend, OR KG6RCR

>> -- >> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott >> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") >> 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) >> Bend, OR >> KG6RCR >> >> >> >> On 11/8/2009 5:45 PM Tom Buese wrote: >> >>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote: >>>> Hokay, So I removed the sliding door's inner panel to get at the >>>> backside >>>> of the outer handle to find out why it was getting loose. >>>> >>>> Removal of the panel was much easier than I thought it would be. In my >>>> earlier thread ("Sliding door inner panel removal -- and gotchas?" I got >>>> some good advice about getting that door off, taking care not to >>>> break any >>>> of the plastic clips, using a trim removal tool to keep from >>>> breaking the >>>> hardboard, etc., and I bought that trim removal tool from my FLAPS in >>>> preparation for the job. >>>> >>>> Only to find that the panel was held in place by eight or so oval-head >>>> screws in dress washers. All that needed to be done was take off the two >>>> inner handles and those screws and it slid right off. >>>> >>>> Maybe the 1984 van have their panels mounted differently? >>> You panel attachment has been modified-stock 84 westy has the clip >>> thingys that we talked about-yours has been modified because of said >>> issues mentioned earlier. Later westies have the blind clips under >>> the vinyl covering over the panel, which are much easier to remove & >>> thus not applicable to the discussion in regards to stock 84's. >>>> >>>> ANYWAY, I found that the screw at the back end of the sliding door >>>> handle >>>> was loose, which was good news because I didn't want to find the stem >>>> cracked. >>>> >>>> There seems to be a part missing, though. The illustration for the >>>> 1980-1984 front sliding door lock on page 58.2 in Bentleys shows three >>>> dingi on the handle stem: Seal, Trim Ring, and Spacer. >>>> >>>> On my handle, I found the spacer, no Seal, and a plastic part that looks >>>> like it could be the Trim ring. >>>> >>>> But it is stamped "251.843.711" -- Bus Depot shows this part as the >>>> Escutcheon, for outside handle, 86-91 Vanagon. >>>> >>>> Bentleys shows the Escutcheon on page 58.18 (From 1985 m.y.) >>>> >>>> Did I mention that this is a 1984 Vanagon? >>>> >>>> How the heck did this van get a 1985 Escutcheon? Do I need a Seal? >>>> >>>> ALSO, There is a black ring on the outside of the sliding door itself, >>>> surrounding the hole for the handle. It's like a thin black washer stuck >>>> to the paint. It's hard to say what that is or was. A vinyl decorative >>>> appliqué bit? Or the remaining traces of a substantial part that might >>>> have vanished, like the mysterious Seal? >>> Sounds like it. The seal rots away & the door handle does not mount >>> as solidly as when that seal is replaced, >>> YMMV, >>> Mr. BZ-missing the same part >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott >>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") >>>> 74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.) >>>> Bend, OR >>>> KG6RCR >>> Tom Buese >>> tombuese@comcast.net <mailto:tombuese@comcast.net> > > Tom Buese > tombuese@comcast.net <mailto:tombuese@comcast.net> > > >


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