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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:39:01 -0500
Reply-To:     mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject:      Re: insurance terminology
Comments: To: dylan <insyncro@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no

None of which changes the difference between stated value and agreed value insurance. We needn't discuss this further. DMc

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:20 PM, dylan wrote:

> My vans are restored/converted by me and the least appraised value of > them is $65,000.00. > I'm not talking about a 2wd worth a few thousand, I'm talking about > Syncro and Syncro Westfalia vans that have had $50k worth of work done > to them on top of inital purchase prices. > Again, this has been covered in complete detail with numbers and > contacts, numerous times and available in the archieves. > >   > > > > ________________________________ > From: "mcneely4@cox.net" To: dylan Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com > Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 5:54:10 PM > Subject: Re: insurance terminology > > You may have aided in such recovery, but that does not change the > definition of the term.  If you were able to prove that the actual > value was the amount you proposed to settle for, and that that was the > least of the stated value, the cost to repair, or the actual value, > then the company would be obligated to pay the amount proposed (or the > stated value if that was less).  My point is unchanged, that stated > value does not guarantee that that amount will be paid.  Agreed value > seems to do so.  But in that case, the proof is required at the time > the policy is written. > > If insurance is $300 per month, that is $3600 per year.  Most of us > self insure on collision and comprehensive if the ratio of premium to > value reaches that level, given the likelihood of loss.  Even if the > van is appraised at $36K, the insurance cost is simply not worth it, > unless the risk of loss reaches about 10%.  Most of our vans are worth > considerably less than that.  My camper might sell for $15K -- I'd try > to get that. But not $36K.  A GoWesty restored van?  Don't know. > > David Mc > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:58 PM, dylan wrote: > >> Try the archieves. >> I have written about this numerous times as well as others. >> I have helped recover over $50k from stated value policies three >> times in the past 10 years. >> If you monthly budget for insurance on your van is less than $300, >> don't bother. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "mcneely4@cox.net" To: dylan Cc: mcneely4@COX.NET; >> vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com >> Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 1:46:03 PM >> Subject: Re: insurance terminology >> >> >> See my embedded comments. >> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:20 PM, dylan wrote: >> >>> Better do a little more researching. >> >> Here are links to two of the sources I used.  These two agree with >> the various insurance companies I consulted. >> >> http://www.4carinsurancequote.com >> >> http://vehicleappraisers.com/Insurance_Information.html >> >> If your sources differ, please provide the sources, as I am well >> satisfied after consulting quite a few myself. >> >> Bottom line is as I stated --- read the fine print, and make sure you >> are getting what you think you are getting. >> >>> >>> Try Hemmings Motor News. >>> >>> What you have stated may be true for Gieco or similar, but there are >>> companies that deal only with classics and stated value policies. >>> >>> I have helped a few listees over the years setup policies and >>> recover more than the van sold for at the dealer, when it was >>> totalled. >>> >>> Go Westy has helped show the retail value of these vans. >>> >>> dylan >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Dave Mcneely To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>> Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 11:45:23 AM >>> Subject: insurance terminology >>> >>> After the discussion of stated value insurance, I did some >>> investigation.  I found: >>> >>> 1.  Stated value insurance seems not to differ from the insurance >>> that >>> we all carry on late model cars, except there is a maximum value >>> stated >>> in the policy.  The policy with the stated value typically has a >>> provision that in case of theft or total loss, the insurance company >>> will pay the lesser of (1) the stated value, (2) actual cost to >>> repair, >>> or (3) actual cash value at the time of the loss. >>> >>> So, stated value insurance seems to offer no advantage to the >>> consumer >>> (owner of a vanagon, for example). >>> >>> 2.  Agreed value insurance is offered for collectible, classic, or >>> antique cars.  This is similar to stated value insurance, in that >>> there >>> is a particular valuation placed on the vehicle at the time the >>> insurance policy is issued.  The policy will then pay, in the event >>> of >>> loss, the lesser of (1) the agreed value, or (2) actual cost of >>> repair. >>> >>> Agreed value policies typically have significant restrictions on >>> use, >>> including a miles driven per year restriction, storage restriction >>> (locked storage facility, indoor storage are usual requirements), >>> driven >>> only to show events and so on. >>> >>> 3.  Insurance agents often misunderstand or misrepresent the >>> limitations, benefits, and advantages of the two kinds of policies.  >>> In >>> particular, they often misconstrue, and communicate incorrectly to >>> buyers, that stated value insurance will pay the amount stated in >>> the >>> policy.  This appears not to be true. >>> >>> For most of us, it would seem that stated value insurance offers no >>> valuation advantage, and agreed value insurance has serious >>> limitations >>> for those who use their vehicles outside the severe limitations >>> allowed >>> (though if the vehicle is used within the restrictions, then one >>> should >>> expect to receive the agreed value in the event of loss). >>> >>> Bottom line:  Be very careful in buying insurance to be sure you are >>> getting what you need and expect. >>> >>> I undertook this investigation because I had been told by my >>> insurance >>> agent (AAA), that I could not get a policy that would pay more than >>> the >>> underwriter's valuation for my camper, even with appraisals.  It >>> seems >>> that I can, but with restrictions on use.  I will be looking now for >>> an >>> agreed value policy, but with restrictions I can live with (for >>> example, >>> I could live with 12 or 15k miles maximum driving per year, and I >>> could >>> store my camper in a locked facility, but I could not live with 5K, >>> and >>> I could not live with driving it only to events.  Hell, I haven't >>> been >>> (and don't expect to ever go) to an event yet). >>> >>> David McNeely >>> >>> David McNeely


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