Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:59:38 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: head gaskets
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
Scott, and all others who have responded -- thanks a great deal for all
the advice and even commiseration.
Looks like I will almost certainly have the seals done. If the heads
need other work, we'll know that when we get them off. I don't know
whether they are the original VW heads, or if they have been replaced
(as part of the longblock that was installed). If so, it would have
been 30K and seven years ago. The van isn't here now, it's at Daryl's
Hobby Shop, in Norman, Oklahoma (30 miles from me). Daryl is a great
guy who has helped me with several problems that I thought were beyond
me. I trust him, and will have him do the work. If they do need other
work, we'll decide whether to mill them or replace them, based on
condition.
I may be paranoid, but to me if something leaks, it needs fixed. When
it was under 10 F here (actually got down to 5 F), the leak on startup
was significant -- or to me it was. It made a nice puddle on the
driveway. It did quit, after the engine warmed up (or the leakage was
evaporating and not evident?), and on the drive over to Daryl's, it did
not lose enough coolant to be a problem (overflow bucket still above
minimum mark). I take the camper on long jaunts. I only drive it
locally if I am checking something out -- otherwise, it's out to distant
campsites. I have no desire to get stuck. Our Christmas trip to Big
Bend State Natural Area has now become a trip to Big Bend National Park
and tent camping with our Prius (still remote, but less so, and we will
at least be able to access nice places without high clearance), because
I won't take this thing on the road or to remote locations, and Daryl
can't get to it till after Christmas.
Again, thanks to everyone, and especially to Scott.
David McNeely
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
> Dave, they are entirely fixable.
> I can't even count how many waterboxer heads I've done.
>
> 'new heads' is not 'the solution' necessarily .......
> but they do need to be VW brand good heads, with no cracks between the
> valve seats, a decent rubber gasket surface, good exhaust valves, good
> guides, and a proper valve job, along with very careful workmanship
> .......
> And they can work out just fine.
>
> if there is so much worry, just do the side that seems the worst, and
> see how that goes.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mcneely" To: Sent: Thursday,
> December 17, 2009 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>
>
>> Well, finding the history of the rebuild might be difficult. As I
>> mentioned, the paperwork I have shows a longblock, does not show
>> source.
>> This thing only started leaking when cold weather arrived. Some seem
>> to
>> think that is simply a chronic state with waterboxers, and they
>> evidently just let it go. I fear finding myself out in the back of
>> nowhere, and the seals let go and I lose the coolant. But from what
>> you
>> say, I might not have any better luck if I do the seals, or even if I
>> get new heads. So, what should be done with such a beast? David
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:30 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>
>>> My apology if I missed that. Leaky heads at only 30K eh? I think
>>> the
>>> experts need to chime in here. You need to find out "why" they are
>>> leaking
>>> at only 30K. Was it a crappy rebuild, did the engine overheat, etc.
>>> Maybe it
>>> was just a bad seal and a new gasket will fix it for years. These
>>> might only
>>> be questions to answer once the heads were off or maybe possibly
>>> finding the
>>> history of the rebuild. Was it just a ring job and new gaskets or a
>>> complete
>>> rebuild with new pistons, heads, etc.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] Sent: Thursday,
>>> December 17, 2009 10:14 AM
>>> To: bfeddish@netreach.net
>>> Cc: mcneely4@COX.NET; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: RE: head gaskets
>>>
>>> Well, I did say that the engine only has 30K miles on a rebuild,
>>> according
>>> to paperwork I got when I bought the beast last spring. I have no
>>> idea
>>> where the rebuild came from (paperwork just states under "parts"
>>> that
>>> a
>>> "longblock engine replacement" was a part of the work done).
>>>
>>> So, you are saying either new heads or mill these, at minimum?
>>> thanks, Dave
>>> Mc
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:44 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>>
>>>> You haven't mentioned how many miles were on this motor, that may
>>>> factor in
>>>> as to what you want to do. Taking the heads off is a big job
>>>> whether
>>>> you do
>>>> it or somebody else does it. If I were to go that far there is no
>>>> way
>>>> I'd
>>>> just slap a new rubber gasket and some sealant in there and put it
>>>> all back
>>>> together. This is of course if there are allot of miles on the
>>>> engine. I
>>>> would at least have the heads done while they were out our better
>>>> yet
>>>> put on
>>>> some new ones. Yeah, the heads are expensive but so is taking them
>>>> off in
>>>> terms of time. Then again if you are budget conscious and you are
>>>> going to
>>>> do the job yourself then at least do the JB Weld thingy with the
>>>> heads while
>>>> they are out.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Dave Mcneely
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:22 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>>>>
>>>> So, I should do the head gaskets, or not? It's very expensive, but
>>>> I
>>>> want a
>>>> reliable van (or no van at all). Thanks, Dave Mc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, mark drillock wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a typical failure mode. Leaks in cold weather, stops when
>>>>> warmed up, leaks worse as temps drop. May go on this way for years
>>>>> depending on you and it. Mine has. On more than one van.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>>> So, I've done about everything I thought I should to make my '91
>>>>>> camper as reliable as it could be, including lots of cooling
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> fixes.
>>>>>> Just replaced all coolant hoses, since so many think that should
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> done.
>>>>>> .......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Head gaskets are leaking. The question: I find it difficult to
>>>>>> think the gaskets just all of a sudden turned loose (I'd even
>>>>>> removed the tins to look for evidence of leaks when I did the
>>>>>> hoses, and saw none).
>>>>>> Could it be that the heads and or gaskets were already loose or
>>>>>> whatever, and the cold weather made them looser and so they leak?
>>>>>> If I run the engine a little while, the leaks dry up, suggesting
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> me that temperature plays a role -- expansion, contraction .....
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> So, could the heads be sealed better even with the temperature
>>>>>> difference between normal fall temps and the quite cold temps
>>>>>> we've
>>>>>> had lately? I'm just trying to understand why this suddenly
>>>>>> showed
>>>>>> up, and wonder if it being coincident with the cold weather is
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than a coincidence.
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