Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:55:44 -0500
Reply-To: Doug Alcock <doug.alcock@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Doug Alcock <doug.alcock@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: head gaskets
In-Reply-To: <2554451.6584.1261148378954.JavaMail.mcneely4@127.0.0.1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
If you're going to put serious bucks into your van to fix the heads
then think "Engine Conversion". When my 1.9 wasserboxer was giving up
the ghost I had an I4 from a Jetta put in. I love it -- reliable,
proven, long-lasting engine. More power to boot and mechanics are a
lot more willing to work on it. Many others will advocate the Subaru
swap. The Wasserboxer is a sort of wonky design -- which has been well
discussed on this forum. VW took a proven and reliable air-cooled
engine and slapped water-cooling on it. See Scott's comment's about
the head gaskets. YMMV -- but if you love the van think about giving a
reliable engine -- which in IMHO the wasserboxer is not --- compared
to many alternatives.
Cheers,
doug
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:
> Scott, and all others who have responded -- thanks a great deal for all
> the advice and even commiseration.
>
> Looks like I will almost certainly have the seals done. If the heads
> need other work, we'll know that when we get them off. I don't know
> whether they are the original VW heads, or if they have been replaced
> (as part of the longblock that was installed). If so, it would have
> been 30K and seven years ago. The van isn't here now, it's at Daryl's
> Hobby Shop, in Norman, Oklahoma (30 miles from me). Daryl is a great
> guy who has helped me with several problems that I thought were beyond
> me. I trust him, and will have him do the work. If they do need other
> work, we'll decide whether to mill them or replace them, based on
> condition.
>
> I may be paranoid, but to me if something leaks, it needs fixed. When
> it was under 10 F here (actually got down to 5 F), the leak on startup
> was significant -- or to me it was. It made a nice puddle on the
> driveway. It did quit, after the engine warmed up (or the leakage was
> evaporating and not evident?), and on the drive over to Daryl's, it did
> not lose enough coolant to be a problem (overflow bucket still above
> minimum mark). I take the camper on long jaunts. I only drive it
> locally if I am checking something out -- otherwise, it's out to distant
> campsites. I have no desire to get stuck. Our Christmas trip to Big
> Bend State Natural Area has now become a trip to Big Bend National Park
> and tent camping with our Prius (still remote, but less so, and we will
> at least be able to access nice places without high clearance), because
> I won't take this thing on the road or to remote locations, and Daryl
> can't get to it till after Christmas.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone, and especially to Scott.
>
> David McNeely
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>
>> Dave, they are entirely fixable.
>> I can't even count how many waterboxer heads I've done.
>>
>> 'new heads' is not 'the solution' necessarily .......
>> but they do need to be VW brand good heads, with no cracks between the
>> valve seats, a decent rubber gasket surface, good exhaust valves, good
>> guides, and a proper valve job, along with very careful workmanship
>> .......
>> And they can work out just fine.
>>
>> if there is so much worry, just do the side that seems the worst, and
>> see how that goes.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mcneely" To: Sent: Thursday,
>> December 17, 2009 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>>
>>
>>> Well, finding the history of the rebuild might be difficult. As I
>>> mentioned, the paperwork I have shows a longblock, does not show
>>> source.
>>> This thing only started leaking when cold weather arrived. Some seem
>>> to
>>> think that is simply a chronic state with waterboxers, and they
>>> evidently just let it go. I fear finding myself out in the back of
>>> nowhere, and the seals let go and I lose the coolant. But from what
>>> you
>>> say, I might not have any better luck if I do the seals, or even if I
>>> get new heads. So, what should be done with such a beast? David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:30 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>>
>>>> My apology if I missed that. Leaky heads at only 30K eh? I think
>>>> the
>>>> experts need to chime in here. You need to find out "why" they are
>>>> leaking
>>>> at only 30K. Was it a crappy rebuild, did the engine overheat, etc.
>>>> Maybe it
>>>> was just a bad seal and a new gasket will fix it for years. These
>>>> might only
>>>> be questions to answer once the heads were off or maybe possibly
>>>> finding the
>>>> history of the rebuild. Was it just a ring job and new gaskets or a
>>>> complete
>>>> rebuild with new pistons, heads, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] Sent: Thursday,
>>>> December 17, 2009 10:14 AM
>>>> To: bfeddish@netreach.net
>>>> Cc: mcneely4@COX.NET; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: RE: head gaskets
>>>>
>>>> Well, I did say that the engine only has 30K miles on a rebuild,
>>>> according
>>>> to paperwork I got when I bought the beast last spring. I have no
>>>> idea
>>>> where the rebuild came from (paperwork just states under "parts"
>>>> that
>>>> a
>>>> "longblock engine replacement" was a part of the work done).
>>>>
>>>> So, you are saying either new heads or mill these, at minimum?
>>>> thanks, Dave
>>>> Mc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:44 AM, B Feddish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You haven't mentioned how many miles were on this motor, that may
>>>>> factor in
>>>>> as to what you want to do. Taking the heads off is a big job
>>>>> whether
>>>>> you do
>>>>> it or somebody else does it. If I were to go that far there is no
>>>>> way
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> just slap a new rubber gasket and some sealant in there and put it
>>>>> all back
>>>>> together. This is of course if there are allot of miles on the
>>>>> engine. I
>>>>> would at least have the heads done while they were out our better
>>>>> yet
>>>>> put on
>>>>> some new ones. Yeah, the heads are expensive but so is taking them
>>>>> off in
>>>>> terms of time. Then again if you are budget conscious and you are
>>>>> going to
>>>>> do the job yourself then at least do the JB Weld thingy with the
>>>>> heads while
>>>>> they are out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Dave Mcneely
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:22 AM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: head gaskets
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I should do the head gaskets, or not? It's very expensive, but
>>>>> I
>>>>> want a
>>>>> reliable van (or no van at all). Thanks, Dave Mc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, mark drillock wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a typical failure mode. Leaks in cold weather, stops when
>>>>>> warmed up, leaks worse as temps drop. May go on this way for years
>>>>>> depending on you and it. Mine has. On more than one van.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I've done about everything I thought I should to make my '91
>>>>>>> camper as reliable as it could be, including lots of cooling
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> fixes.
>>>>>>> Just replaced all coolant hoses, since so many think that should
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> .......
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Head gaskets are leaking. The question: I find it difficult to
>>>>>>> think the gaskets just all of a sudden turned loose (I'd even
>>>>>>> removed the tins to look for evidence of leaks when I did the
>>>>>>> hoses, and saw none).
>>>>>>> Could it be that the heads and or gaskets were already loose or
>>>>>>> whatever, and the cold weather made them looser and so they leak?
>>>>>>> If I run the engine a little while, the leaks dry up, suggesting
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me that temperature plays a role -- expansion, contraction .....
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> So, could the heads be sealed better even with the temperature
>>>>>>> difference between normal fall temps and the quite cold temps
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> had lately? I'm just trying to understand why this suddenly
>>>>>>> showed
>>>>>>> up, and wonder if it being coincident with the cold weather is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than a coincidence.
>
--
http://www.dougalcock.com
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