Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:52:44 -0600
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Rubber...Our best friend...Our worst enemy
In-Reply-To: <021301ca805b$c487bdd0$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There's plastic and there's plastic and there's plastic and all are
different. Each formulation has a set of characteristics that designers have
to live within. I mention in my last post that ABS, the plastic that old
telephone housings were made of is only good to 140 degrees F. Very old
telephone housings were made of asbestos reinforced Bakelite. Bakelite is
also called Phenolic and is still being manufactured today with other
fillers in place of asbestos.
ABS is used because it's strong, has a natural shiny appearance and can be
molded into very intricate shapes. I bet that a lot of Vanagon interior
parts, dash parts and even the shift knob are made of ABS. None of these
parts would last a week inside your engine compartment. Even your coolant
routinely gets 10 degrees F hotter than the maximum temperature that ABS can
stand.
Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
Our Web Sites:
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.andyshotsauce.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Rubber...Our best friend...Our worst enemy
well it depends.
if they'd made everything out of the same plastic the instrument cluster is
made out of .....
things would sure last better I bet.
kinda funny........the plastic of the instrument cluster itself is very
cheesy - always breaking where the speedo and tack mount to it by screws,
and where it is held down on the 4 corners - they break there commonly and
consistently ....
but, the cover for the instrument cluster - I think you could run over one
and it wouldn't break - ok, exaggerating just a little.
I have never seen a broken one - the instrument cover piece. - how nice.
now why didn't they do that for the instrument cluster itself !
if anyone remembers old land line dial phones.....
ever notice how indestructible that plastic was ?
You could slam one of those to the floor as hard as you want , or use the
handset to hammer in nails ...................they used completely
indestructible ( or nearly ) plastic on those old phones.
Must be the same plastic as used in the instruments cover piece.
shift knobs seem plastic and they never fail in any way.
there are some good plastics on vanagons for sure , here and there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake de Villiers" <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Rubber...Our best friend...Our worst enemy
>I agree Scott - the VW plastic has a short half-life! =)
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>> well, rubber does have a lifespan.
>> I also much say the hoses used on vanagons are just excellent. I know of
>> MANY original main coolant pipe hoses, for example, that are 20+ years
>> old,
>> and look fine.
>>
>> btw......the hoses that wear the most are the ones that get the hottest -
>> usually ones on top of the engine.
>>
>> now what about the plastic bits ?
>> 2.1 engines have noticeably more plastic on them that 1.9
>> waterboxers......
>> plastic thermostat housing ( 2WD not syncro ) and .......for example
>> ............hat distribution tower hidden behind the firewall on the
>> right
>> side -
>> now you talk about a part that can screw you in the middle of nowhere.
>> There
>> are 5 connections on the thing .....and there's more than one version.
>> you 'could' substitute for it in Mexico to get home if you just had too,
>> but
>> just looking at the thing .......it's hard to tell what does what .
>>
>> those things just disintegrate. They last amazingly well actually
>> .......but
>> they do like to just fail.
>> and plastic coolant bottles, let's not forget those, and the aftermarket
>> ones don't last that well sometimes.
>>
>> at least with rubber, you expect it to have a lifespan.
>> plastic does too, but it's not so commonly recognized.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Stevens" <mtbiker62@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Rubber...Our best friend...Our worst enemy
>>
>>
>> I don't agree with any of this rationale. I think
>> irresponsible/poor/lazy
>>> maintenance practices is the culprit.
>>> Pilot error. Review each of the examples you listed and if they are each
>>> maintained at reasonable intervals,
>>> there are no failures, let alone catastrophic failures.
>>>
>>> bob
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Richard Koerner
>>> <rjkinpb@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>>>
>>> Volks,
>>>>
>>>> I am the original poster on yesterday's thread..."Audible" Idiot
>>>> Lights.
>>>> Still plenty of room for discussions and solutions there.
>>>>
>>>> But, I've been thinking. What is the main cause of Vanagon
>>>> catastrophic
>>>> failures? Rubber.
>>>>
>>>> Your alternator/water pump belt is rubber...it snaps, you may be toast.
>>>> Your coolant lines are mostly rubber...if they rupture...you're in for
>>>> it.
>>>> Your fuel injection hoses are all rubber...well, we know what that
>>>> means.
>>>> And tires....they blow out, yes they do! All rubber. Anyone want to
>>>> talk
>>>> about gaskets?...more rubber. Vacuum hoses in the engine compartment?:
>>>> rubber, and they can cause infinite frustration and poor performance if
>>>> leaky, along with that rubber thing to the air filter. Power steering
>>>> and
>>>> suspension and wiper blades and shock absorbers...more rubber things to
>>>> fail.
>>>>
>>>> Now, rubber is an excellent engineering material...solves SO many
>>>> issues.
>>>> But, at a price...lifetime. The stuff just doesn't last forever.
>>>>
>>>> The logical solution: replace. And replace sooner than you think you
>>>> might need to. Nothing like a roadside breakdown in the middle of
>>>> nowhere
>>>> to make you wish you had replaced "that" rubber component. So easy in
>>>> the
>>>> garage with access to Van Cafe, Vanagain, BusDepot, GoWesty,
>>>> FLAPS...and
>>>> so
>>>> on (not meaning to exclude anybody here). So EXPENSIVE and
>>>> trip-ruining
>>>> to
>>>> do it on the road. Not to mention major damage to your engine, your
>>>> vehicle, or even your body!
>>>>
>>>> So...I've personally had: leaking fuel injector hoses, broken belts,
>>>> rear
>>>> tire blowout...next on the list is rubber coolant hoses; still have
>>>> MOST
>>>> of
>>>> the original there (mechanics have noticed some swollen coolant hoses
>>>> which
>>>> were immediately replaced). And head gaskets....ugh...time for a new
>>>> peppy
>>>> engine when that one hits.
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm "preaching to the choir" on this one.....but still. Rubber
>>>> is
>>>> going to be the downfall of these marvelous Vanagon machines.
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>> 85 Vanagon Homemade Camper Conversion with 180,000 wonderful miles
>>>> San Diego
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
> --
> Jake
>
> 1984 Vanagon GL
> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>
> Crescent Beach, BC
>
> www.thebassspa.com
> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
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