Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:57:04 -0500
Reply-To: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: ThreadJack: MY Rebuilt Engine is another saga...
In-Reply-To: <5E47A372-358A-422B-88C7-2A35B9FC69C6@sheilah.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Regarding your conundrum,
If your engine only has 40K on it, I wouldn't have too much concerns about
the low end and thus would JUST fix the heads. I also would assume there is
little to no corrosion and it can be fixed properly with JB weld as is well
documented and simple. I would have the heads rebuilt by a machinist to have
the valves seated, but i strongly doubt they even need to be replaced....
just seated.
The problem with these WBX vans is that a "simple" head gasket job can
easily run $2-3K after you get new heads, new exhaust, and all the other
things the mechanic suggests you replace "while you're in there". It sucks.
"Porting" is the act of cleaning up or expanding the channels through the
head that the air/fuel mix moves through. By removing tiny burs and what
not, the theory is that the engine breathes more and you thus get more
power, more economy, essentially just more efficiency. While this can make a
difference on some engines, I wouldn't hesitate to say that it won't do
ANYTHING noticeable to a WBX, at least not with stock valves. One thing that
rebuilders do sometimes to gain efficiency is replace the valves with bigger
valves, this can allow the system to breath more easily and this combined
with some porting and the next step up in removing and perfecting the intake
tract which involves getting it so perfect it's "polished", may gain
efficiency. I Strongly doubt that most mechanics are capable of installing
bigger valves "properly". Very few rebuilders do this, at least do this
right. Without it, I strongly doubt you'll notice anything from some
porting, as the intake tracks in every WBX engine i've ever pulled apart
have been well cast.
My experience with the Vanagon Community is that if you look around your
area (especially being as you live in an area heavily populated with
Vanagons), you can likely find a person or group of people that may be
willing to help you or do it for the same or less cost than a mechanic, and
probably do a more thorough job as well. If you look hard enough, I bet
you'll find good souls in your region, though again..... your mileage may
vary.
I think everyone's mileage may vary, but in my mind no WBX will benefit from
porting alone, and there are about 4 or 5 rebuilders I'd trust to install
bigger valves, and only those people.
Just my thoughts.
-Craig
'85GL turned WESTY
BOSTIG in the back
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Sheilah Rogers <sheilah@sheilah.org> wrote:
> Curious timing, this post. Thank you for posting an update. It's so great
> (as a newbie to this list) to be voraciously reading and consuming as much
> as I can on most of these subjects, especially when one of them is happening
> to me right now!
>
> My mechanic just told me that both valves in cylinder 3 are leaking (by
> ~20%). I bought a factor rebuild in 1999, just a mere 40k miles ago. Yes,
> I'm bummed.
>
> I found this out after asking the mechanic to run a compression test only
> because my dad thought it'd give me peace of mind since I was afraid to plop
> down ~$3k for an unrelated work order (which includes some other Must-Do
> fixes now). SOOO now, here I am, looking at $3k plus valve work. You might
> say my head is spinning a bit.
>
> Thanks for posting the follow-up to your own, Bryan. i'm going to go search
> the archives for your prior thread on the subject. If you care to give me
> anything that might help me find your previous discussions, eg: Month / Year
> that this discussion took place, I would be appreciative.
>
>
> In case anyone's interested, here's the current plan/approach:
>
> 0/ Decide if all this money is worth the cost and love I have for Vanna.
> Figure out how to finance it. I guess this last sentence highlights my
> tendency...
>
> 1/ Mechanic doubts the heads are corroded because there's no visible
> gunk/coolant and they're so "new". So hopefully, he can bypass new heads. If
> the heads are corroded... well, perhaps I'll save that thought if new
> information necessitates it.
>
> 2/ He will take apart the old heads (I'm assuming there are only two) and
> port/seal both of them. I hope this is what will prevent losing (another)
> engine, or at least valve, for awhile.
>
> 3/ He offers something called Porting at two levels: the better Porting
> also involves some Polishing ~> yields better mileage and power. I need to
> figure out whether to do one or the other (or not).
>
> 4/ Though I've never overheated my engine that I know of (at least not on
> this rebuilt engine), I will become even more scrupulous about changing my
> oil every 3k miles or slightly less often if it's winter (non-synthetic, no
> Penzoil, yes to Castrol 20/50) - I'm in San Francisco, no snow, not so much
> freezing temps here. In all fairness, I believe I've been pretty good about
> oil changes anyways.
>
> 5/ I will search the archives to find anything and everything I can about
> valve, heads, and porting.
>
> 6/ I will eat copious amounts of chocolate and pretend all this work and $
> is Okay. I will also feel like a traitor while I search online for Chinooks
> for sale. Oh wait, I did that last part yesterday.
>
> 7/ I'm considering a local weekend class I heard about that teaches fools
> (and I use that term lovingly) like me a bit more about the vehicles they
> drive.
>
>
> s.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2010, at 2:53 PM, B Feddish wrote:
>
> > If you missed our last episode, here is review. I bought a 1.9 from Chris
> at
> > JordanVW about 18 months ago for my mechanic to rebuild for my '83 wc
> Westy.
> > Why did I buy a new core when I already had one? Because my mechanic is
> so
> > slow that I knew he would take forever to rebuild it and I did not want
> my
> > van rotting in front of his shop with the engine out. I also bought some
> > good slightly used AMC heads from Ken at VanAgain. My mechanic had a
> heart
> > attack right after getting the engine apart and is out of commission for
> > awhile. I was going to head down to Annapolis to get an inexpesive
> rebuild
> > after that and posted such plans with some questions to the list. I got a
> > barrage of emails with all kinds of suggestions, etc. Jim Arnott
> forwarded
> > my email to Stan at Boston Engine (who I met this past summer at a RI
> > campout) and forwarded it to Gary (From Boston Bob's) at Suburban Engine.
> > Lots of emails went back and forth then after he agreed to rebuild a 1.9
> I
> > mailed it up to him in 3 big boxes. My fingers were crossed as he said
> the
> > case needed to be able to take a new set of bearings but it turned out
> OK.
> > I got squeamish about having the original valves on the AMC and Gary put
> on
> > some "better breathing" German ones. I don't to kick off that debate
> again,
> > it was just cheap insurance.
> >
> > OK, now I have an engine sitting up in Cambridge, MA that Gary probably
> > wants out of his shop. I'm going to have to plan a trip to go get it. My
> > wife wants to come so we'll probably spend more on a mini vacation then
> if I
> > just had him ship it here. sigh... OK, how am I going to get this engine
> in
> > the back of my van? I have several options. One is a current list member
> > here was so adamant about me not getting a cheap rebuild that he said
> he'd
> > come to my house and put a good one in for free. He may regret offering
> > that as I may take him up on it. :) I'd help or course. The other option
> is
> > me putting it in by myself. That could be difficult. I guess what I
> would
> > like to know is if there are any shops within say 75 miles that could put
> it
> > in at a reasonable price? None near me will do it. I'm in the western
> > suburbs of Philadelphia. What are the odds that Benny Boy is traveling
> south
> > this month and is dying to do a 1.9 R&R? :) :)
> >
> > I appreciated all the rebuild ideas everyone like "Get a 2.1", "Do a
> > Subaru", etc. but you have to remember I already bought a 1.9 core, I was
> > not going to go spend another $400 on another core. And why did I do
> another
> > WBX? Because it is the least expensive route at the time and my current
> one,
> > rebuilt in a local garage, lasted 12 years and always got me where I
> wanted
> > to go.
> >
> > I will have running 1.9 that needs a water pump and head gasket leak fix
> for
> > sale shortly for cheap...
> >
> > I also will have the 2.1 core that I got from from Ron this past summer.
> > It's down to the case (but has issues) and I'll be offering that free in
> a
> > separate thread.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bryan
>
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