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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:30:46 -0600
Reply-To:     Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject:      Vanagons and old things - was STRANDED in South Florida
Comments: To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <4B5C937F.2020807@charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh, I agree that newer is generally better.

Take for example my new Jeep. It has a stability control system that amazes me. I can be driving down a rain soaked road, hit a puddle of water that would pull me to the right in any other car but the Jeep just sails right through. I'm a technical person and understand what is going on in the background - the slight attitude change is fed from the gyroscope into the computer and the computer turns on the left wheel ABS as needed. It's still amazing.

But doing the jobs I do, I'm surrounded with technology. And I just like old things which is really why I'm interested in a Vanagon, they are old enough to interest me. My newest motorcycle is a 92 Harley-Davidson but I ride my 76 BMW more often - it's just a nice old machine. And I understand the issues with air cooled VWs, I've owned enough of them. And I know that a bus is under powered, but try driving a 123 body Mercedes 240D with an automatic transmission! A bus would win a uphill or downhill race every time!

I probably will buy a Vanagon but I'll buy a running one in good shape. I learned a long time ago that it's cheaper to pay up front than to put something together unless you live next to a junk yard and are friends with the owner. I'll also take the info I learned here and buy a set of parts most likely to fail. That's the real advantage of belonging to a group like this, pay attention and after a while you assimilate quite a library of information between your ears. But you also get to participate with your experiences. It's definitely a win - win.

BTW, I did not buy the new Jeep - the wife insisted and she makes lots more $$$ than I do. She works in Wisconsin and did not feel good about me traveling to Wisconsin and back in my old jeep. It was also new in by book, a 2000 model with only 170,000 miles on the clock.

Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924

Our Web Sites: www.kegkits.com www.stir-plate.com www.andyshotsauce.com

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of John Rodgers Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:38 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel

Tom,

I noted your joining the gang here to learn in anticipation of getting a van. If the AFM is of such significance to you, why not begin from the outset with the idea of getting a van with a dead engine and do a conversion to a Suburu 2.2L or better at the very outset. You would really have something then. I would never disparage the earlier vans, but they are from a different era - and they do not perform or ride anything like a Vanagon. I think the early vans are very cool, especially the splitties, but man - they don't ride or perform anything like a Vanagon, and for that difference, I would never harken back to The Good Old Days for the earlier machines.

John Rodgers Clayartist and Moldmaker 88'GL VW Bus Driver Chelsea, AL Http://www.moldhaus.com

Tom Hargrave wrote: > Mark, > > Your troubleshooting seems you can rule out the mechanical fuel system > including water in the gas or diesel in the tank. What's left is electrical. > > My real EFI experience is with D-Jet and K-Jet, not L-Jet but I did drag out > some books. > > Looking at the system drawings, there just isn't much there - there are two > temp sensors, the airflow meter which includes one of the temp sensors & > idle switch, oxygen sensor and an aux air valve for idle. It's much less > complex than the D-jet systems. Also, nothing in the book I'm looking at > lists the failure mode you are experiencing for any of the sensors. > Everything states "runs bad" or "poor fuel economy". > > I pulled this quote from my Bosch book "A defective airflow meter usually > results in hesitation when the engine is under load. A binding or > mechanically worn airflow meter can also result in sagging power, stalling > and severe backfiring through the manifold". So, it seems to not be the > airflow meter. > > I'm wondering of you have something grounded, a wiring harness issue or a > ECU issue? Like I said earlier, maybe someone who works on these systems all > the time has the answer, but it's extremely difficult to troubleshoot by > remote control. > > BTW, I don't own a Vanagon. I joined this group to learn with plans to buy > one, but I'm concerned about the airflow sensors wearing out with no new > replacements available. I may change my mind and buy a bay window bus with a > D-jet system. At least I know enough about D-Jet to understand what I need > to keep with me to stay on the road "regardless". > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > 256-656-1924 > > Our Web Sites: > www.kegkits.com > www.stir-plate.com > www.andyshotsauce.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of > Mark Drexler > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:23 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: FW: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel > > Thanks. I guess what I was trying to get at, is that I am getting spark and > enough gas for a smooth idle with the afm off. It won't accelerate > obviously, but can I rule out some causes based on this. > Once I connect the afm back in, it will idle very rough, and I cannot get > any rpm increases, even sitting in neutral. > I am going to check connections on temp sensors, try to adjust the throttle > Switch for idle, pull off the fuel hose at the filter, check flow from fuel > pump, and replace the fuel filter. Then I am out of ideas. > Keep em coming. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Tom Hargrave > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:56 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel > > That was my point - but we are getting off subject. The issue is one lonely > Vanagon stranded in South Florida. > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > 256-656-1924 > > Our Web Sites: > www.kegkits.com > www.stir-plate.com > www.andyshotsauce.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:48 AM > To: Tom Hargrave > Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: [VANAGON] STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in > fuel > > But noboby PUT that water in the tank. It came from the storm, and the > tanker was removing it. DMc > > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Tom Hargrave wrote: > > >> Not always true - a few years ago I pulled into a service station to >> fill >> one of my Mercedes diesels up and there was a big truck stranded in >> front of >> the diesel pump. He had just pumped a tank of water. >> >> We had a very heavy rain that morning and enough water seeped into the >> underground tank to raise the water level up past the pickup tube. >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Hargrave >> 256-656-1924 >> >> Our Web Sites: >> www.kegkits.com >> www.stir-plate.com >> www.andyshotsauce.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On >> Behalf Of >> Rob >> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:45 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel >> >> Nobody PUTS water in the gas unless it's sabotage or theft. It does >> happen but it's not on purpose, storage facilities work to jeep water >> out of fuel. >> >> Rob >> becida@comcast.net >> >> At 1/23/2010 09:18 PM,Zoltan wrote: >> >>> I agree with this assumption. It happened to me a few times when on >>> the >>> road. The freeway side gas stations can do it to you. Once you are >>> gone, >>> you're on your own. Towing, waiting for a garage to open until >>> Monday, >>> sleeping in the van at a weird place, etc. Maybe some fuel additive >>> would >>> solve it. >>> The gas stations are allowed to put in a certain amount of water into >>> their >>> tank, depending on how much alcohol there is in it, I think. >>> Zoltan >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Allan Streib" To: Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:47 PM >>> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP >>> >>> >>> >>>> Mark Drexler writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Now just fueled up, and will start, but spits and burps, and can't >>>>> get >>>>> all cylinders firing on start up. Feels like a lack of fuel >>>>> delivery >>>>> to me. >>>>> >>>> When running problems appear suddenly after a fuel fill, you have to >>>> consider that maybe you got a batch of dirty or watery fuel. I >>>> think >>>> this is uncommon these days, but it can happen. >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> -- >>>> 1991 Vanagon GL >>>> > > >


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