Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 10:55:46 -0600
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in
fuel
In-Reply-To: <C5D99EC3DAA24853A24E9806A3E8038D@IBMDA3234A2E69>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mark,
Your troubleshooting seems you can rule out the mechanical fuel system
including water in the gas or diesel in the tank. What's left is electrical.
My real EFI experience is with D-Jet and K-Jet, not L-Jet but I did drag out
some books.
Looking at the system drawings, there just isn't much there - there are two
temp sensors, the airflow meter which includes one of the temp sensors &
idle switch, oxygen sensor and an aux air valve for idle. It's much less
complex than the D-jet systems. Also, nothing in the book I'm looking at
lists the failure mode you are experiencing for any of the sensors.
Everything states "runs bad" or "poor fuel economy".
I pulled this quote from my Bosch book "A defective airflow meter usually
results in hesitation when the engine is under load. A binding or
mechanically worn airflow meter can also result in sagging power, stalling
and severe backfiring through the manifold". So, it seems to not be the
airflow meter.
I'm wondering of you have something grounded, a wiring harness issue or a
ECU issue? Like I said earlier, maybe someone who works on these systems all
the time has the answer, but it's extremely difficult to troubleshoot by
remote control.
BTW, I don't own a Vanagon. I joined this group to learn with plans to buy
one, but I'm concerned about the airflow sensors wearing out with no new
replacements available. I may change my mind and buy a bay window bus with a
D-jet system. At least I know enough about D-Jet to understand what I need
to keep with me to stay on the road "regardless".
Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
Our Web Sites:
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.andyshotsauce.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
Mark Drexler
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:23 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: FW: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
Thanks. I guess what I was trying to get at, is that I am getting spark and
enough gas for a smooth idle with the afm off. It won't accelerate
obviously, but can I rule out some causes based on this.
Once I connect the afm back in, it will idle very rough, and I cannot get
any rpm increases, even sitting in neutral.
I am going to check connections on temp sensors, try to adjust the throttle
Switch for idle, pull off the fuel hose at the filter, check flow from fuel
pump, and replace the fuel filter. Then I am out of ideas.
Keep em coming.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Tom Hargrave
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:56 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
That was my point - but we are getting off subject. The issue is one lonely
Vanagon stranded in South Florida.
Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
Our Web Sites:
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.andyshotsauce.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:48 AM
To: Tom Hargrave
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: [VANAGON] STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in
fuel
But noboby PUT that water in the tank. It came from the storm, and the
tanker was removing it. DMc
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Tom Hargrave wrote:
> Not always true - a few years ago I pulled into a service station to
> fill
> one of my Mercedes diesels up and there was a big truck stranded in
> front of
> the diesel pump. He had just pumped a tank of water.
>
> We had a very heavy rain that morning and enough water seeped into the
> underground tank to raise the water level up past the pickup tube.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> 256-656-1924
>
> Our Web Sites:
> www.kegkits.com
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.andyshotsauce.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> Behalf Of
> Rob
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:45 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP-water in fuel
>
> Nobody PUTS water in the gas unless it's sabotage or theft. It does
> happen but it's not on purpose, storage facilities work to jeep water
> out of fuel.
>
> Rob
> becida@comcast.net
>
> At 1/23/2010 09:18 PM,Zoltan wrote:
>> I agree with this assumption. It happened to me a few times when on
>> the
>> road. The freeway side gas stations can do it to you. Once you are
>> gone,
>> you're on your own. Towing, waiting for a garage to open until
>> Monday,
>> sleeping in the van at a weird place, etc. Maybe some fuel additive
>> would
>> solve it.
>> The gas stations are allowed to put in a certain amount of water into
>> their
>> tank, depending on how much alcohol there is in it, I think.
>> Zoltan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allan Streib" To: Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: STRANDED in South Florida - NEED TECH HELP
>>
>>
>>> Mark Drexler writes:
>>>
>>>> Now just fueled up, and will start, but spits and burps, and can't
>>>> get
>>>> all cylinders firing on start up. Feels like a lack of fuel
>>>> delivery
>>>> to me.
>>>
>>> When running problems appear suddenly after a fuel fill, you have to
>>> consider that maybe you got a batch of dirty or watery fuel. I
>>> think
>>> this is uncommon these days, but it can happen.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>> --
>>> 1991 Vanagon GL