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Date:         Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:02:37 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: No Clutch....caution, long
Comments: To: pdooley <psdooley@VERIZON.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

I thought the suggestion that there could be a lot of moisture in the brake fluid in the clutch hydraulic system ... and that ice crystals could be forming in it - I thought that was a great insight and possibility.

I'll bet *many* vanagons have quite old bf in their clutch hyd systems. Whenever I change brake fluid on a manual trans van ... I treat the clutch slave cylinder as just a 5th cylinder to do. You just have to remember ( if using a pump the pedal method ) to do it with the clutch pedal, and not the brake pedal, for that '5th cylinder.' you can't change brake fluid too much almost. it's every two years - that's the spec. I get a dead van, that I don't know how long it will be before I get it running, I change the BF right away ........cause brake fluid deteriorates and pulls moisture out of the air , just sitting there. that causes corrosion on the bores of all the cylinders. and those corroded walls make it harder for the rubber seals to seal.

7 cylinders total. on a manual trans vanagon. 4 wheels, one brake master cyl, and 2 clutch cylinders. no wait...if 85 or earlier, it's 9 pistons, cylinders, or master cylinders total. and they go down hill just sitting there. so change the BF !

I don't think this is quite true of knowledible vanagon people, but ..... 'traditionally' ....back when cars were not self-tuning ......people would judge when they needed service and tuning by when they didn't start and run as nicely as they once did.- so they waited for a symptom to show itself - ah ha - time to get Betsy into the shop.

in modern self-tuning cars, you can't go by that. same for brakes .......if you wait until the pedal is a bit low or mushy , it can be too late a bit already. Deterioration of the metal and rubber parts of the hydraulics has already occurred. If you change brake fluid when it should be changed ... the hydraulic parts last really well.

The fluids ........the oil, a-frz, bf, etc. the fluids in an automotive vehicle do lots of things. they transfer heat away, they carry dirt away, they keep parts from touching each other and so forth. Actually .......the metal and rubber parts would hardly deteriorate if the fluids were constantly changed. the ideal engine oiling system would have oil pumped by the oil pump, to the bearings, splash around on the cylinder walls, and then go right out of the engine. One cycle through - that would be ideal, and not very practical,

( - though their have been 'ultra' racing motorcycles, called Speedway Bikes ........single cylinder, 500 cc's, no brakes, two gears, and a total loss engine oil system ( I don't think that's done currently however ) . There are wild dirt track bikes, they only turn left, there isn't even a left foot peg, and they are ridden fully sideways the whole way around the dirt track, or almost anyway. The purpose of a total loss oil system in those is just for simplicity and to save weight. - but interesting, to me anyway. )They race 'em on ice too , with spikes that stick out of the tires . ) Fluids deteriorate. I would be like never shampooing your hair to not change fluids in an automotive vehicle when they should be changed.

----- Original Message ----- From: "pdooley" <psdooley@VERIZON.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:42 AM Subject: Re: No Clutch....

> The piston is aluminum, not rubber. > Also I don't think metal contraction due to temp is relevant here. > The piston has a small rubber seal that I would bet is causing the > problem. > Rubber gets hard when cold and doesn't seal that great. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Dave Mcneely > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:02 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: No Clutch.... > > differential contraction of parts can allow fluid bypass more readily, I > think. Though I have heard it suggested that if bypass is a sometime > problem, cold will make it less likely because the cylinder itself > contracts, while the piston is rubber and doesn't. But I guess my > ignorance > is showing. David Mc > > ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: >> Cold weather has a way of making clutch and brake hydraulics suddenly > fail. >> Especially if the fluid is old and has enough moisture in it to make ice >> crystals. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf >> Of >> Bill Shawley >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:56 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: No Clutch.... >> >> Ok gurus, went out to show the van some love, (and to measure something), >> took the key to start it as well. Put my foot on the clutch and straight > to >> the floor, no resistance. It is very cold, dark, and kind of immobilized > in >> some shoveled snow, hardcore diagnostics can wait. No problems last time > I >> drove it, may 4-6 weeks ago. Any guesses to trim the troubleshooting > curve >> for me? >> >> >> >> Ryan >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/


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