Date:         Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:58:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: rear heater blowout - stranded
Comments: To: Greg Potts <greg@pottsfamily.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response

Hi,
for sure, if you get fine heat out of your vanagon 'soon enough' starting
out from stone cold with the heater in the full 'warm' position,
then do do that.

I'm even wondering right now if 1.9 waterboxer cooling systems warm up
faster than 2.1 ones.
I've seen 2.1's seem to be a little slow to get to temp in cold conditions.

if that ever seems to be happening, and you want to keep the heater from
helping to cool the engine so that it takes longer for the engine to get
fully up to temp, then keep heater temperature to only half , or cloer to
off.

Some people seem to have trouble understanding how the heater circuit, and
the thermostated main circuite work.

if the heater valve is on, ( and there is air flow through the heater core,
either by ram air affect on the front heater core, or by fan, on either
heater core ) ...........the heater circuit acts like a fully
UNtheremostated cooling circuit.

if it's cold enough, and the load on the engine is light enough, and there
is both good heater circuit flow of both coolant ( heater vavle fully 'on' )
and air flow through the heater cores, it can take a long, long time to get
ujp to ful temp, as determined by the t-stat value .......
or if the combination of conditions are severe enough, it never will get to
full temp.

it would have to be very cold for that to happen, and load on the engine
very light, like going doing hil for a long time.

as I said before, there have been factory bulletins to this affect, at least
one, by subaru.
They found engines not even getting into closed loop, in sever econditons,
wiuth heater full on from the get go.

I personally know of a 2.1 vanagon that only went about 2 miles, in town, on
the level, for most of its winter time trips.
Each drive cycle, was about 2 miles, at 25 to 30 mph.
that poor van never got warmed up.  Rather extreme example I know ...
but it never operated at full temp, perhaps the oxygen sensor never got
going well, combine that with a few out of tune items like throttle switch
perhaps, - you're wasting a lot of fuel, some unburtnt fuel could be getting
into the oil etc.
   that's an extreme case , granted,
main point is, getting it fully up to temp is important in very cold
condtions,
and under some circumstances , heater on full from the get go can make it
much harder for the poor thing to warm up.

I am wondering right now if 1.9 waterboxer cooling system might be a little
better in this regard than the 2.1 one.
my personal van is an 85 Adventuewagon, with 2.1 engine, exhaust system,
throttle body and plenum and intake runners,
but 1.9 FI and cooling system.
Hasn't been that cold lately, but I sure need to keep the heater down , it
seems to work so well.

I commonly remove the rear heaters to gain the underseat room for storage,
and because they are often leaking some.

Also ....some people think 'cooler is better'.
Like it's running at say 40 or 45 % on the guage.
that is not good,
it MUST run fully up to temp, 180 F at least.  That's right at 50 % on the
vanaogn temp guage if everything is right..

if buying a good german t-stat, the usual choices are 80 and 87 degrees
Celcius.
that's 'a little cold' ........the 80,
and nice n' warm, the 87 which equals 188.6 F.

of course, any time you need to convert temps from C to F , you just write
'covnert celcius to fharenheit' in a google search box, and in 2 seconds you
have a nice converter giizmo.

do whatever works,
and the bigger percentage of time that your van spends at full temp, the
longer it will last., the engine part that is.

scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Potts" <greg@pottsfamily.ca>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>;
<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: rear heater blowout - stranded


> Hi Scott,
>
> Doesn't the thermostat prevent coolant from flowing to the rad if the
> engine is below its target threshold?
>
> In which case a short-circuited cooling hose or an open-flowing heater
> core can't affect warmup, because (as I understand it) there's no coolant
> flow out of the engine bay until the engine reaches its optimum
> temperature.
>
> I never worry about turning on the heat too soon in winter... because in
> my 46 years of experience with long Canadian winters you don't get any
> until the engine is ready to give it to you anyhow.
>
> Unless you use a gas or propane furnace, that is.
>
> Happy Trails,
>
> Greg Potts
> 1973/74/79 Westfakia "Bob the Tomato"
> 1987 Wolfsburg Weekender Hardtop
> www.busesofthecorn.com
> www.pottsfamily.ca
>
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> in the wintertime......you'll get faster warm up of the coolant, with the
>> heater circuit off.  Wait for 5 to 8 minutes of driving to happen in the
>> winter before turning on the front heater valve.
>