Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:50:01 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Problem installing a baby seat - caution, long
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original
You are absolutely right David,
no question.
Absolutely ........any modifications to safety equipment ...
'technically' we never should.
For sure, anything done, has to be done very, very well and carefully.
I do think there is some leeway for a rear seat belt that has to be designed
to keep a 200 pound, or heavier person in place during severe decelerations
..........since the most a baby seat and baby might weight would be maybe 50
lbs.
I'd say the chances of using the equipment incorrectly is far, far more
likely than the parts failing.
Honda had a stink about seat belt failures in their cars.........in the 90's
possibly, in the U.S..
They did a bunch of research
and what they concluded basically, is that many Americans are slobs in their
cars and the seat belt mechanism where getting fouled by food.......
bits of hamburgers and french fries, or hair or chewing gum.
and indeed, I have had to clean out horribly impacted hair/goo/chewing/gum
who knows what out of a Volvo 240 seat belt, to get it to function again.
last story - to illustrate my point that 'user stupidity' is far more likely
to be an issue than the equipment itself.
Had customer with a small Honda car, a Civic.
This was a medium young couple with a baby.
he agreed to bring it in for service since in 200,000 miles it had never
once had the valve clearances adjusted, and those are supposed to be done
every 30,000 on that type of Honda.
He says, on the phone 'don't be bothered about the brake warning light'
.....it's on from poor switch contact on the parking brake handle."
I said 'Honda's don't do that, Volvo's and some other car do, but not
honda's. It could be low brake fluid."
Mind you, people drive their 18 month old baby around in this car.
I get the car............there is , honest, 1/8th inch of filthy black brake
fluid in the bottom of the brake fluid resevoir !
I look in the owner's manual for the car. Right there on page 19, it says
'if the brake warning light does not go out when you release the parking
brake after the engine is running, check the brake fluid level in the
resevoir on the brake master cylinder. If it's low, fill it, and then go see
a Honda repair station."
I asked the woman on the phone if she had ever read the owner's manual. She
just laughed - . of course not ! Too busy with baby and maybe another child
too.
No amont of careful seat belt usage is going to make up for no brake fluid
in the brake fluid resevoir !!
LOL.
so yeah.........
it does take SOME BRAINS and thought to operate a car safely.
And we all know, that many people will drive with big fat warning lights on
all the time, 'as long as the car seems to function right.'
and sure, if someone is going to hand sew belt webbing with dental flos, and
only 8 stiches total...
that's not going to work when it counts !
On one of my vans someone made a seat belt extension. If you've ever had a
really big person in your vanagon passenger's front seat, the seat belt
won't reach around some really large people.
Someone had cleveraly taken a seat belt, and made a one foot long
male-female seat belt extension.
the sewing on it looks professional grade.
It 'probably' is safe ..........probably.
In Germany, that likely would not pass an anual inspection.
I doubt they have big dogs loose in their cars whilte driving there either,
or diogs sitting on the dash of RV's like we do here.
There is a TON of lack of safety awareness and consicousness in our culture.
Thanks for pointing out the need to be extremely careful modifyng safety
equipment.
As I said ...........officially you should not modify any safety equipment
on your car.
And using it Intelliigently .........that is by far the bigger challenge.
Those belts that run on the front window frame, so that the upper part is
automatically belted when you start the car.
those things are a major hazzard !
For one, there is no incentive to manually buckle the lower part, since 'it
looks to cops like you have your seat belt on'
and Surely.....having only the cross-torso upper part on and not the lap
part bucked ....
has got to be seriously unsafe in any crash.
And ........those 'mouse track' things ........they've been known to rip off
visors.
And someday, a technician is going to reach in to turn on the key to do a
test,
and the thing will move and catch his or her head and hurt them.
And they move sometimes if you turn on the key, or if you turn it t off.
Rather unpredictable . I don't think any modern cars have them these days.
so ........given THAT dumb design,
if a vanagon owner is willing to CAREFULLY make a change to a seat belt
installation, and be responsible for it's correct use.......
I think it's acceptable for a person to do that to THEIR VAN only .....and
take full responsibility for anything that make occur that's less than
desirebale.
Heck ......
it's nothing as bad as a one year old getting DECAPITATED by a too strong
front air bag in a 93 jetta in a shopping center parking lot fender bender
minor accident. !!!!
( which did happen ) .
so given all that ...dumb design by manufacturers, I think a responsible
vanagon owner might consider doing a REALLY CAREFUL and good job of making
a small seat belt change on a rear seat for a baby seat.
Use 4 inch wide brand new racing car seatbelt webbing, and have it sewn by
a company that makes racing seat belts.
that ought to work !
I get your point, of course, and am glad you said something !
Scott
www.turbovans
and I am VERY safety focused.
I can't say I am overly confident that most of the world is very safety
conscious though.
......man ! ...
one of the commentators spoke 'Real Truth' last night on TV, about that luge
guy that got killed when he came of the sled, and flew right into steel
supports next to the luge track. . He said .....'what a high price to pay,
to be made aware that posts like that must not be exposed where a luger
could hit one.'
the guy flew off his sled at 90 mph, looked to me about 30 feet, and smacked
right into a steel support. Now THAT .............having exposed steel
supports right next to a track with a wild support like luge,and high speeds
like 90 mph ...... is not demonstrating much safety consciousness at all.
They fixed it immediately, but a young guy had to die for them to see the
need. Such a shame.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mcneely" <mcneely4@COX.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Problem installing a baby seat
> It's taking me a bit of thought to know how exactly to say something that
> I think is very important regarding this matter of the seat belt and the
> child seat. Several modifications have been suggested, some of them
> involving altering the anchor, some of them altering the belt. Scott's is
> the latest.
>
> The seat belt has been engineered and tested for stresses and strains that
> result from a crash. Which of these modifications have done so? I would
> be very leery, for example, about resewing a seat belt and expecting it to
> be as strong as the original. I am sure there are modifications,
> including some along the lines suggested. I would just want to be
> absolutely sure the belt as changed is as strong as the original. I guess
> that goes without saying, and maybe you are all confident that it will be.
>
> Sincerely, David McNeely
>
> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>> It wouldn't be impossible to remove that 'too long' female seat belt end,
>> and shorten it.
>> take it to a place that sews canvas ......
>> if you cut open the loop on the end where it joins the metal thing where
>> it
>> bolts to the body of the van ...and shorten that part.
>> it's just a 30 second job to re-sew that new end. Nylon thread would be
>> strongest and 'most original.' I believe.
>>
>> better yet, get a spare to modify .........and have them both on one seat
>> belt anchoring bolt.
>> the short one for the kid seat,
>> the stock length one for adults etc.
>>
>> I have spare one I can sell, most likely.
>> Scott
>> www.turobvans.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Markus Benne" <mbenne@M-BASS.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Problem installing a baby seat
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm having a problem installing the baby seat.
>> >
>> > The buckle is at a very awkward location relative to the baby seat.
>> > The
>> > problem (really my poor choice of seat, I guess) is that the Vanagon
>> > buckle is about 10" long and extends past the seat a long way. By
>> > buckle I mean the female part of the seat belt with the push button
>> > clasp. I guess I could look at a generic.
>> >
>> > Does anyone know where I can get a shorter buckle (6" or 8") that would
>> > work with the vw parts?
>> >
>> > Any other ideas?
>> >
>> > I'm using the gowesty tether which appears to be pretty good.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > ...Markus
