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Date:         Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:46:57 -0800
Reply-To:     neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Trans. Install: Input shaft & clutch splines
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
In-Reply-To:  <146401cac86b$34d91be0$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks.

Yup. Just bought a DV PB. Bit of a gamble, but will install DV PB with next clutch. Current PB has less than 13K km's and looks fine, but no felt seal.

For other newbs attempting input shaft R&R, check Andrew Libbys write up on the Samba re: clutch housing oil slinger. Good thing to check. Also, I did a write up last night on input shaft R&R. Your tip (IIRC) in the DV group about using a mirror really saved the day. I tried several different things, and found what worked for me. Nothing new, but others may see the post and be helped.

I'm running Redline MT synthetic. May be too "thin" for older tranny. We'll see. This is kind of a tranny testing situation. If tranny ok, oil should be ok for a while. (oil fairly new) This way I can sell it as working (if I'm that lucky!) Eventually I'll install my WBX tranny/linkage.

Re CV's. They're still somewhat new. Didn't make a note but grease on one end of each was drying up faster at face that meets flange. For sure. I added more grease on each end of each CV. This being regular Moly CV grease. Of note, I found that a piece of 3.5" ABS cut to 5/8", with a gap cut out wide enough to fit over drive shaft handy to keep bolts flush to CV for outboard CV install. Slips in between last largest bellow and bolt heds. Line up CV, turn first bolt at ABS gap a few turns, turn ABS to next bolt and so on. Maybe a waste of time or clumsy as not proven. I only used it on one side but seemed to help. Especially for us worry warts that use Blue Locktited on threads. Might help keep threads from possibly getting grease on Locktite.

Neil.

On 3/20/10, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > cool. > so you do have it together now. > > on the pilot brg seal thing ... > I'm sure you know this ... > it's important to have a 'pilot bearing clutch dust seal' .. > either the felt thing wateboxers use ( won't work with a diesel vanagon > flywheel anyway ) > or the DV pilot bearing with little rubber seal built into it. > > I've seen lots of waterboxer vanagons put togther with no clutch dust seal > for the PB ... > the PB goes out in a just a few years without some dust seal. > Very important that one be fitted. > > bit of a bother to take in input shaft out of one, but since you have two > DK trannines, that means you could use the input shaft from on as a clutch > alignment tool. > > I have a DK I picked up for 40 bucks ... > gotta try that one out one of these days. A part fell out of place in the > shift cover at the front, so it wouldn't shift. I have a good shift cover > from a DZ ...just gotta put that onto the DK and try that trans in a van. > I have found quite a few used DK's to be noisy and pretty tired generally. > I hope your New Used one it in fine shape ! > > fwiw ....regarding gear oil and making a used trans shift nicely .. > my normal gear oil is Redline MT-90 ... > and I have gotten a 3rd gear syncro in a used trans that was touchy or > weak, to work much more smoothly with Prolong Transmission Addtiive .. > that additive is pretty much a 'standard deal' now on used vanaogn manual > transmissions for me these days. > > related thougts - > > I'm quite generous on CV joint grease. I think the standard amount > recommended is not quite enough.. Have seen many very dry CV joints > ....almost like the grease evaporates. I use the black slimy stuff - moly > graph. > I also suspect that inner CV joints might tend to wear more due to running > hotter by the engine and trans... > and think swapping inners to the outside can't hurt ....and plenty of grease > in the boot and in the 'cup' of the flange. I havn't ever seen a case of > 'too much' grease in a CV joint- but many cases of not enough. > > re your inline four gasser engine installation - I just saw an interesting > perhaps 'basic' inline four gasser VW engine ... > 96 Jetta, ( mexican production one , kinda cheap in the body overall ) > 2.0 liter, 8 vavle pretty sure, and throttle by wire. > That whole car with high miles on it can go for only 500 bucks even. Might > make a nice engine conversion for a vanagon. > I'm surprised there aren't more inline four gas Vanagon engine > conversions... > seems like a natural, robust and reliable, and not expensive to get often. > > mabye there are a lot of them and they are so good we just never hear from > the owners ! > scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "neil n" <musomuso@gmail.com> > To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> > Cc: <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:35 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Trans. Install: Input shaft & clutch splines > > >> On 3/20/10, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >> >>> It's not together yet ? >> >> >> Heh. Almost. >> >> Swap was driving fine, but removed "original" DK as it has a funny >> noise coasting in 1st/2nd at low speed. DK currently being installed >> is one I bought used. Am hoping it's ok. If so, I may attempt a >> rebuild of noisy DK. Ha! >> >> >>> one, if using diesel vanagon flywheel on an inline four engine in a >>> vanagon >>> with DK trans or input shaft .. >>> the DK shaft has to be shortened about 12mm from stock....... >> >> >> Thanks. For sure. I did this at time of swap. Dremel worked for me. :) >> >> I'm sure you know this, but for others, I recently learned that the DV >> pilot bearing is a sealed unit. I installed a slightly longer (Fox?) >> PB thinking it might be a sealed unit. (no felt ring required?) >> Doesn't look like the DV PB I just bought. It has a seal. Still, Fox >> one still looks fine after ~ 13K Km's. Next clutch, I'll install the >> DV PB. >> >> >>> >>> Always put the trans in any gear, and put the parking brake on ... >>> so as you are conencting engine and trans you can rotate the crank pulley >>> >>> a >>> little bit to line up splines. >> >> >> >> Good tip. Yup. Did that >> >> >>> >>> I have seen where after a lot of horsing around and not getting the >>> splines >>> to engage ....the splines of the clutch disc got damaged a little....so >>> they >>> could never engage. Solution was to pull engine and trans back apart, >>> repair >>> those splines with a tiny file. So make sure that doesn't happen. >> >> >> Good to know. Same as cleaning up splines on end of a damaged half >> shaft I bet. (BTDT) >> >> I guess my question should have been simpler. >> >> Like: >> >> If splines UNdamaged prior to tranny R&R, is it possible for "new" >> tranny to fully mate to engine if splines misaligned? >> >> From what you've said, seems not. >> >> >>> and you kinda gotta have a plastic dummy input shaft ( comes with a >>> clutch >>> kit, I have several left over ones I'd sell ) >>> or a real input shaft for a clutch alignement tool. >>> If you just try to eyeball it ...you can ... >>> but that's tricky. >>> If I had just eye-balled the centering of the disc in the pressure >>> plate/flywheel , I'd be extra careful about forcing it. >>> >>> You probably have it together by now anyway I bet ! >> >> >> Clutch was already installed/working right. This conversion was driving >> fine. >> >> Tranny is now mated to engine. Just needs buttoning up. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Neil. >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "neil n" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM> >>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: Trans. Install: Input shaft & clutch splines >>> >>> >>>> Thanks Dylan. >>>> >>>> Clutch was already installed and aligned/working right. For sure. >>>> Clutch tool is handy. :) >>>> >>>> So it's possible to get engine in with splines misaligned? >>>> >>>> Didn't feel like I forced engine in, but I used nuts to pull tranny to >>>> engine (each a bit by bit carefully, engine moved easily though) so >>>> needed to ask. Last time IIRC, tranny eventually went in "by hand". >>>> >>>> Neil. >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, dylan <insyncro@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> forcing it will do damage to the splines. >>>>> not recommended. >>>>> get a clutch alignment tool. >>>>> they are given with complete clutch kits. >>>>> makes the job very simple. >>>>> >>>>> dylan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM> >>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>>> Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 2:52:08 AM >>>>> Subject: Trans. Install: Input shaft & clutch splines >>>>> >>>>> Hi all. >>>>> >>>>> When installing the transmission, is it obvious if input shaft/clutch >>>>> splines aren't lining up? Is it possible the transmission can be >>>>> "forced" in even if splines misaligned? >>>>> >>>>> I'm not totally unfamiliar with VW transaxle remove/install, but >>>>> tonight, it was a royal PAIN. (don't ask) Anyhow, when things finally >>>>> lined up, and enough thread was showing on lower studs, I used lower >>>>> nuts, then uppers, to bring the transmission and engine together. It >>>>> all "felt" ok while doing this, but because I had to use the nuts, I'm >>>>> asking the above. FWIW, I did jockey the crank back/forth to help make >>>>> sure splines lined up. >>>>> >>>>> ** For others running an I4 with carrier ~ in middle of block, with >>>>> transmission removed, engine might tilt toward rear of vehicle. MIne >>>>> did. Jacking up pulley end of engine to normal position obviously >>>>> helps to line up studs. Before I did this, the rear portion of the >>>>> transmission was hanging up on cross member, barely allowing lower >>>>> studs to pass through clutch housing holes. >>>>> >>>>> Oh and if you're using a KEP, be mindful of that longer stud. Not sure >>>>> if all KEP/VW use this, but mine does. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Neil. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" >>>>> >>>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >>>>> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" >>>> >>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >>>> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" >> >> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines >> > >

-- Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"

http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/

http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines


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