Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:40:01 -0800
Reply-To: neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil n <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Proper Brake Pedal Feel/Travel?
In-Reply-To: <049601cacba3$95b5d530$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
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Hey Scott.
Thanks for your reply.
I posted this under another subject an hour ago but....
"Wolfe" (local VW mechanic) road tested my Westy around the block. He
said pedal felt fine, didn't feel air in system and that brakes were
ok. In fact said "good work" in regards to my work. When asked if he
would be ok driving my Westy (re: brakes) he said "yes!".
I asked about pedal getting slightly higher after "first push of the
day". His opinion was that when brakes not used for a while (like
overnight) caliper + wheel cylinder pistons get pushed back in a
*little*. Next day, the first pedal push gets pistons back out, second
push, pedal a *little* higher.
Brakes have always:
- Locked up causing nose dive, at city speeds, or faster. Fronts and
rears showed even skid marks on dirt. On dry pavement, fronts left
marks, rears left hardly, if any, marks at all.
- Started what seems like normal braking, at 1-2" pedal travel
(haven't actually measured)
Pedal does not go to floor, but with med-high pressure, pedal can be
pushed to point where I feel a light stopping point. If that makes
sense. Doesn't feel like metal on metal.
I checked quickly today. I think MC had FTE on it. Internet search
tells me FTE is German. It's about 3 YO, with low miles on it.
If MC were leaking internally, would I notice a BIG obvious decrease
in braking performance? I know what failed MC feels like. Mine is not
even close to that.
And, is there any truth that if rear backing plates are old (thin from
rust), they will flex under when pedal pushed super hard?
Neil.
On 3/24/10, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> you should never feel that 'bottomed out against something hard like medal'
> feeling in your brake pedal.
>
> unless you say your MC is new, I suggest that it's an MC leaking
> internally...
> like between the two in-tandem sections that makes it a dual circuit MC.
>
> try a high quality new MC.
> what is normal is ..
> nice high firm pedal....maybe goes down 1 1/2 inches then starts to slow the
> van.
> You should be able to get on the brake pedal hard enough that on drive
> pavement at 50 mph you could lock up the fronts if you wanted to ...
> or nearly that good.
> You should be able to apply more braking force than normal size tires can
> deal with - or nearly.,
>
> like slowing down hard enough that the nose dives, and everything loose in
> the van flies forward.
>
> I have had some that just 'would not' get a nice high firm pedal.
> One was an 85 weekender.
> Always stopped fine, had good brakes in the wheels etc...but pedal was
> always more like 'half way down' rather than higher than that and firm
> feeling. .
> Wasn't mushy, just wasn't high off the floor.
>
> I put in a brand new german MC ....it was still the same. Did everything
> except the booster.
> my point is ......some vans seem easy to get a high firm pedal easily, ,
> others less so.
>
> but that hard metal feeling in the pedal stroke......
> not supposed to be there at all.
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neil n" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:54 PM
> Subject: Proper Brake Pedal Feel/Travel?
>
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I've owned one Vanagon. I know what an outright "wrong" pedal feels
>> like but not what a proper Vanagon brake pedal feels like. Like from
>> 0-10, 2 -3 = normal driving pedal pressure, 10 = total stain yer pants
>> panic stop pressure, pushed at level 7, my pedal eventually stops
>> against what I assume is metal. Brakes fine otherwise. I've done lots
>> of work on them (* below)
>>
>> Does this mean air in system? Should a good pedal NEVER bottom out?
>> Like pushed to 10, should it feel like it's up against something solid
>> but not bottoming out against a stop of some kind?
>>
>> To ensure air not the culprit, I pressure bled them. (finally built a
>> pressure bleeder. Used one-man valve before). Pressurizing reservoir
>> with air to 12 PSI, I saw a steady stream from all bleeders, NO
>> bubbles, no change in pedal feel over previous method. Of note, fronts
>> bled noticeably faster. Used ~ 3/4 litre.
>>
>> In archives, these caught my eye: Rear wheel cylinder position (early
>> MY) and brake switch(s) air bound. (MC replacement)
>>
>> Again no point of reference, but for some time it's seemed that my
>> pedal requires slightly more than normal pressure required to activate
>> brake lights.
>>
>> I replaced MC not long after buying Westy. I don't recal bleeding the
>> switch. How is this done? Likely that info is in archives.
>>
>> It drives with no *real* issues. I just want to be sure there's NO air
>> in system.
>>
>> Thanks for taking time to read.
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
--
Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
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