Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:57:54 -0400
Reply-To: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Massive Maintenance and cost
In-Reply-To: <528586B7F9034C3EB960CE95B04A12F9@Guenther>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Um, actually this isn't the best moment to be discussing how awesome
Toyotas are. They have been at the top of the heap for a while now but
they may soon be dethroned by (drum roll please) VW. If you want to
read about it from news articles you can do so here:
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1161/volkswagen-steals-toyotas-crown-as-worlds-largest-automaker/
and here:
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/volkswagen-to-become-worlds-biggest-car-manufacturer-by-2018/
and here:
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/vw-overtakes-toyota-to-become-the-worlds-largest-car-manufacturer/
and here:
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/volkswagen-sets-its-main-target-dethroning-toyota
VW's quality is rising again. Instead of making a bare bones people
mover that is dirt cheap, they have decided to go for a more lucrative
market which is making a near luxury quality car at a mid level price.
That and having a brand in just about every car market in the world
(even China) has helped them to continue to grow and flourish while the
other big two car companies (GM and Toyota) are hurting.
All that said, does any of this discussion help us with our current
Vanagon that we all own and love? Of course not. I will say that the
Vanagon is on par with any mini-van made in the 80s or 90s or even
today. The mileage is normal for a minivan. Many of the modern ones
that are out now only get around 20 mpg (even the Japanese ones). If
you have ever thought about owning a different minivan and did some
research into inherent problems you will see that they all have them.
Ford Windstar had horrible transmission and engine problems. Chrysler's
famed minivan from the 80s was an utter piece of trash that people buy
because of the price not the quality (there wasn't any). The Japanese
minivans just didn't sell for whatever reason until the Honda Odyssey
which had major transmission problems up until just a few years ago. So
I still haven't found a replacement for my Vanagon even though I have
looked around. The quality level is better than most other minivans
even today. It can be reliable if you realize that you need to maintain
it and if you do this before things break you are not going to
experience "Massive Maintenance and Cost". You are going to have a
reliable van that has tons of room inside and is fun to drive. You
aren't going to have a $6-800 monthly payment of buying a new minivan so
your Vanagon is actually cheaper to own and drive. You have to keep
things in perspective. A new minivan will cost you upward of $30k and
the instant you buy it, you start to lose money. Owning a Vanagon you
can buy a nice one for around $6k (passenger) and then when you go to
sell it in a few years you might get all of your money back. The camper
values were going up and up a couple of years ago and when the economy
smooths out will probably continue to do so. I really don't see how
Vanagon ownership is such a terrible thing.
Just my opinion.
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
Arkady Mirvis wrote:
> Great response, David. Thank you. Ark.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Beierl" <dbeierl@attglobal.net>
> To: "Arkady Mirvis" <arkadymirvis@GMAIL.COM>
> Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Massive Maintenance and cost
>
>
>> At 01:59 PM 4/15/2010, Arkady Mirvis wrote:
>>> German quality sucks since the end of Beetle era.
>>
>> Not to mention the decision to build the most expensive instead of the
>> least expensive cars in a given type.
>>
>> They were so far ahead of US automotive quality that they sat on their
>> hands while the Japanese zoomed past, then still sat on their hands
>> while
>> US quality caught up and passed. Then they went (I've heard) from 40%
>> world market share to 10% in ten years. Which reminds me to mourn the
>> recent death of NUMMI, the Toyota-GM partnership in California that let
>> the Japanese learn how to deal with unions and the Americans learn
>> how to
>> build a good Toyota (Nova/Prizm).
>>
>>> I wish the handtwisting [and] neckgrabbing [that] Americans are
>>> enjoying
>>> doing to Toyota [would] be applied to german made cars which for a long
>>> time are far
>>> qualitywise behind cars of Japan in Consumer Reports.
>>
>> Me too! I wish VWAG had taken the Vanagon to Toyota and said "Don't
>> touch
>> a thing -- just make it reliable." There's my dream vehicle right
>> there.
>>
>>> I've seen japanese cars where rubber
>>> parts look new after 25-30 years.
>>
>> Yep. Although in fairness, every Toyota I've had has a little rubber
>> drain on the back of the front-corner marker lights, and they've all
>> rotted in 3-4 years.
>>
>>> In my 87 Westy all bellows are cracked.
>>
>> Yes! It's disgusting.
>>
>>> Pay attention to JAPANESE electrical work.
>>
>> Especially Toyota. They seal all their electrical plugs airtight with
>> O-rings and gaskets. But they all do pretty elegant work, and aren't
>> stingy with relays.
>>
>> And another thing -- on Toyotas, anyway, fully-inserted bolts usually
>> come
>> unstuck with a bump and then are immediately removable with the fingers.
>> However they're getting them to seal, it's working.
>>
>> Yours,
>> David
>
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