Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:39:49 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Found a timesert in the spark plug hole
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
hi Roland,
I think your plan is perfect.
the trick of course is to get the insert to stay bonded with the head, and
plug to come out easily and consistently from then on.
I think your first idea is the more conservative one, and less likely to
lead to any problems.
the second plan is more bold...with the idea of getting a better bond
between insert and head., but perhaps riskier.
I think I would do the first plan...
then drive it a few cycles.....for a week or so, and with cold engine see of
spark plug comes out nicely.
and the first time you install a new spark plug ..there is the distinct feel
of crushing the crush washer the first time....you need to get through that
portion of the tightening first.....then take to final torque. 22 ft. lbs
sounds very mild to me.
also ..when you go to remove the spark plug 'maybe' popping it loose, rather
than slow steady turning, might help the plug to 'pop-loose' unscrew, and
insert to stay in place. I do a lot of things very much by 'feel'....and
applying torque in faster or slower speeds, depending on what it's on.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland" <syncronicity1@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Found a timesert in the spark plug hole
> Hi Scott, Tom, Mark,
>
> Thanks for the additional insights.
>
> When I wrote "square" I really did mean the "flat" seal, just didn't know
> the terminology. Also, asked because the new plugs came with the washers,
> and now I know that these are crush washers.
>
> So, I am going to go for it.
> - Anti-seize on the plug threads,
> - screw the timesert onto the plug
> - then put the thread locker on the outside threads of the insert. I'll
> use
> the material that came with it, the package says it is for spark plug
> uses,
> so I'll have to trust that it is valid for higher temperatures.
>
> Then screw that combination in there, torque to the 22 ft. lbs that the
> Bentley says. Let it sit overnight.
>
> Only other alternative I thought of is to use one of the old spark plugs
> and
> torque it to a higher value to maybe get a better seat on the insert.
> Then
> wait a day, remove the old plug, and install the new one. Any views on
> this
> idea? How much higher could I set the torque wrench if I used and old
> plug
> first?
>
> Sorry to be such a ninny on this one, just seems like a really dangerous
> area where I could mess something up quite bad.
>
> Thanks!
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>> exactly what Tom says here.
>> It sure 'should be' what we're calling a square ( I'd call it flat )
>> seal,
>> and uses a sealing washer ..
>> that you just leave on the spark plug, where it should automatically be.
>>
>> driver's side rear is # 4 in any opposed four VW engine.
>>
>> as long as the insert doesn't come out with the spark plug, it should be
>> fine.
>> If there is a compression leak at the sealing surface where the plug
>> screws
>> into the head and insert...
>> you should hear the leak with the engine running - listen there with a
>> listening tube held to the ear.
>>
>> Scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 6:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Found a timesert in the spark plug hole
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>>
>>> 2 spark plug seal designs exist.
>>>
>>> The square seal is the one with the crush washer you have to make sure
>>> is
>>> on
>>> the plug before you install it.
>>>
>>> The taper seal has no crush washer. Instead the sealing surface on the
>>> plug
>>> and the head are tapered like a flare fitting.
>>>
>>> All the VWs I've owned had the square seal but I've not owned anything
>>> with
>>> the wasserbus engine yet.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> www.stir-plate.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Mark Dearing
>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 7:16 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Found a timesert in the spark plug hole
>>>
>>> In a message dated 5/2/2010 2:36:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> syncronicity1@GMAIL.COM writes:
>>>
>>> So a question, does the Vanagon spark plug hole have a tapered or
>>> square
>>> seal at the top? Could this old "timesert" thing be the source of low
>>> compression if it was incorrect? A couple of compression tests several
>>> months ago showed this cylinder low (can't recall the number, the rear
>>> one
>>> on the driver's side).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hello Roland there are a bunch of different plug inserts out there. They
>>> all
>>> work about the same. no compresion loss if installed correctly and
>>> head
>>> has no cracks. hole is not tappered and I don't know what you are
>>> calling
>>> a square seal? Plugs do have sealing rings on them and should be left on
>>> later mark d
>>>
>>
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