Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 16:08:21 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: The coninuing distributer saga - LOOONG
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re
Lets back up a moment. I write software for a living, If I had 3 changers to
make I would make 1 at a time, test it and if there was a problem I would
back out to where I started to at least be back where I was. It occurred to
me I'll bet they installed the new injectors, changed the vacuum and
installed the new distributor at one time. If was me, I would have done one
at a time and test drove between each one but I guess I'm crazy.
RIGHT ON Bryan !
you are right...make one change at a time, see where you are, get that level
or step right, then go on to the next.
and personally ...I don't think 'all new rebuilt injectors' is what it is
supposed to be always...
like to me, chances of introducing a new problem with 'all new rebuilt
injectors' are fairly high.
I even think a good used injector is better than some rebuilt ones,
sometimes.
and yes...if for some logical reason, the distributor drive shaft in the
engine cases needs to be advanced one tooth or so, so the distributor can
'reach' the timing it needs to ...that 'could' be in order.
However...you never normally need to do that.
do they have # 1 plug wire at the notch on the distributor for where # 1 is
? ?
they could far easier re-position the plug wires on the cap to correct for
that 'can't reach the timing we want' thing.
Check that for sure.
also .....that distributor driveshaft ..
they usually have two thin washers on the bottom of them ...
if those get crooked or jammed or out of place pulling that shaft in and out
...
you can get in trouble there....
and really, I have corrected that on hundreds of air-cooled VW engines , but
never once on any waterboxer engine...
so supposedly that should not be necessary.
and it sure isn't hard to move all the plug wires on the cap one step
'forward'.
unless they get a break-through soon, I think it might be worth the effort
to let those new injectors hang outside the engine ...but still on the fuel
rail...and spray test them in situ. I've seen lousy new rebuilt injectors a
few times.
I had a customer one time with a 6 cylinder Nissan Maxima ...with one
injector leaking externally.
He wanted all 6 replaced. - the car ran like carp.
I started swapping the other good used ones back in ..except for the leaky
one of course .....and then it ran fine again.
"It is NOT about replacing parts. It is about fine tuning and massaging
carefully to full vanagon engine running health."
really....sure sometimes 'replacing a part or the part' is what fixes
something ..
but that's almost incidental in a way, to what the REAL process is ...
to test, inspect, fine tune, lubricate, adjust etc. etc. etc....
to get the ole electrons and other fluids flowing correctly.
also ...man ...
with another vanagon like yours nearby .....that's running right ..
so you can test your distributor, say, on that van .....that can be more
work,, like a lot of R & Ring ...but it's a pretty good test method.
I think your air flow meter has been replaced or something ...
I don't think one of those by itself can contribute to uneven idle...but for
some reason your AFM is on my mind.
spray test the injectors too, I'd suggest.
typically, when I need a set of 4 good injectors ...
I test 15 of them to find 4 I am happy with.
hope you are getting some great body work done !
you might even try re-indexing the spark plug wires on the cap so it can
reach more advance...
rotor turns clockwise ..so you would move each plug wire one position
counterclockwise oh the cap,
and then you'd probably have to rotate the dist clockwise a little, as it
will be very much too advanced from the plug wire re-positioning.
Scott
www.turbovans,com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: The coninuing distributer saga - LOOONG
> Bryan,
>
> 2 things.
>
> 1. Your mechanic can not work on your car the way you work on software. He
> would have disassemble, reassemble to do the distributor and then
> disassemble, reassemble again to do the injectors - all billable time.
>
> 2. I wonder if your "good spare" distributor is really good? You might try
> calling around the local shops to see if anyone still has one of the old
> SUN
> distributor testers & knows how to use it. A SUN tester was used to check
> the performance of your distributor outside the car and they were great
> machines in the day.
>
> Tom
> www.stir-plate.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> B
> Feddish
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 11:00 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: The coninuing distributer saga - LOOONG
>
> OK, I'm not divorced yet but the wife is having serious thoughts about
> keeping one of the family members around..
>
>
>
> Where we left off, Scott was helping me work out my slight hesitation
> woes.
> We pretty much confirmed my vacuum advance was not cooperating. I ordered
> a
> good used one and also made an appt at the local shop that still has an
> old
> timer to do some other fuel checks for me. The owner said we might as
> well
> replace the fuel injectors since A) I'm going to have to pay him to take
> them off and put them back on anyway and B) several people have mentioned
> that I replace them since they are 27 years old. OK, I bring over the
> fuel
> injectors on Thursday afternoon when they arrive. On Friday my new good
> used distributer arrives so I thought "what the heck" and drove that over
> to
> the shop since they were just bringing it in now. I don't hear from them
> for 6 hours and I got kinda nervous, as I should. The owner calls up and
> tells me the injectors are in, the vacuum hoses have been re-setup like
> the
> Benlty diagram and the new distributer is in. The problem is it now runs
> like complete crap. This is 3:30 on Friday. They said they had to get it
> out
> of the shop since they were working on it for hours with no effect. They
> said they could not advance the distributer because the vacuum pipe
> sticking
> out was being blocked by the AC pedestal. I was kinda confused so I told
> the I wanted them to talk to Gary, the guy who built the motor before
> doing
> anything else. The mechanic agreed it was a good idea thought he owner
> got
> indignant.
>
>
>
> I ask if the van runs enough to drive as I said I wanted to take it home
> and
> do some bodywork over the weekend and I would bring it back Monday. They
> said it was drivable. I barely made it home, it was like it was running on
> 1
> cylinder. Temp rose above normal. I was almost in tears last night. The
> wife really started to talk about how much we could get back parting out
> the bus.
>
>
>
> Lets back up a moment. I write software for a living, If I had 3 changers
> to
> make I would make 1 at a time, test it and if there was a problem I would
> back out to where I started to at least be back where I was. It occurred
> to
> me I'll bet they installed the new injectors, changed the vacuum and
> installed the new distributer at one time. If was me, I would have done
> one
> at a time and test drove between each one but I guess I'm crazy.
>
>
>
> I set out this morning determined to back out what had been done and at
> LEAST get the bus back to being drivable. I was SOO close, I was up to
> 16
> MPG city and only a slight hesitation remained. Now I had an un-drivable
> vehicle. I took out the new (good used ) distributer and replaced it with
> my old one. The van drove the same as when I gave it them. A slight
> relief.
> I then took the new used distributer and put the vacuum unit on a spare
> distributer that I have (with a bad rusty vacuum unit) the van started up
> but I could not turn the distributer past 5 deg ATDC. I then took the
> vacuum unit and put it on my current distributor. Pretty frightening
> thought since this was a known "ok" unit and I was about to take it apart.
> I put it on and I cannot turn the unit passed 5 Deg ATDC. Then I recalled
> my other one was bent to fit. I then took a metal tube and very slightly
> bent the connector a little bit. The I could get the timing to about 2 deg
> BTDC. That's as far as it goes.
>
>
>
> OK, for those of you still following along. The van runs pretty well. The
> hesitation is 99% gone and acceleration is smooth. What should I do now?
> Should I have them pull the distributer thingy to allow it to move more
> and
> allow new advance? Should I drill a hole in the AC pedestal to allow it to
> turn? Should I leave it alone? Should I find a 2003 EV Camper with 25K
> miles on it for $5,000 like my wife wants?
>
>
>
> Comments suggestions, snide remarks appreciated.
>
>
>
> BTW, there is an impromptu Westy campout in Buck County PA tonight. I may
> go
> but bring the EV just in case. The hosts broke down on their way to the
> event last night and the van is now in the shop. Sigh..
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan
