Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:57:59 -0500
Reply-To: Max Wellhouse <dimwittedmoose@CFU.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Max Wellhouse <dimwittedmoose@CFU.NET>
Subject: Re: Why my rear axle nuts got loose
In-Reply-To: <59B1CC4E345747D3AF9C514C1A541945@Mikelaptop1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The simple solution to braking all those expensive tools is to use
3/4" drive equipment. I'm not sure any 1/2" drive stuff was
designed to handle 360 ft. lbs. of torque. My Craftsman 3/4" drive
flex handle is healthy after all the times I've R &R'ed my rear axle
nuts over the years., Sure, it gets used maybe once every 3-4 years,
but it's there when I need it. This is one set of tools that I would
NOT buy at Harbor Freight.l I only have maybe 4 or 5 3/4" drive
sockets, but they can be bought one at a time as needed.
DM&FS
At 06:46 AM 6/12/2010, Mike wrote:
> In my experience if you haven't broken and bent a few breaker bars then
>you're not applying enough torque. "Smokin' plus a quarter of a turn".
>Yes, they need to be tighter than you hand can push on a 2 foot bar. If
>you're 180 lbs and you stand on the very end of a horizontal bar and it
>won't turn any further, you've applied 360 ft/lbs. Jumping is a no-no.
>This will break many cheap (and some not-so-cheap) ratchets and breaker
>bars.
> I can't tell you how many Craftsman, Snap-On, Mac Tools, Cornwall, Proto,
>no-name, etc that I've snapped over 30 years of VWing. Only buy good ones
>with lifetime warrantee (like Craftsman) and expect to swap out a few broken
>ones now and then.
> Never loosen to line up a cotterpin hole, tighten only! You're axles are
>very hardened forged steel, your drums are soft cast iron, your axle-nuts
>are high-grade steel.
> The drum splines and nut threads take the first wear (easiest parts to
>replace), while the axle stub splines or threads would be last to wear in
>extreme cases.
> Disassembly, cleaning and inspection will tell you the extent and location
>of the damage. By the sounds of it, you definitely have some damage due to
>this situation going on for so long.
> If you're lucky, you can get by for long while with slightly worn drum
>splines and new nuts properly-torqued. If you can't get them tight enough,
>even all new parts will soon be destroyed.
> Yes, it's that critical and your description of your previous attempts
>sound casual at best. You may also have inherited a very worn set of parts
>from the DPO.
>
>Mike B.
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: "M. Jade" <tinho2010@YAHOO.COM>
>Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 2:39 AM
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Subject: Re: Why my rear axle nuts got loose
>
>>Hello David, thanks for the quick reply. I hope it is not damaged that
>>easily yet. Last year the axles were taken off to replace broken CV joint
>>boots. I had been paying attention to the rear wheels. The noise from
>>loose axle nuts is very easy to idnetify. I had two AC beaetles in the
>>past and I had that problem before. So when I heard it last year I took
>>the earliest opportunity to tighten them. The noise immediately went away.
>>It has been good for more than 6 months. Then it started again on one
>>wheel. I checked it and it sure was loose. So I tightened it again. This
>>was about two weeks ago. That wheel is doing fine now. Then I heard the
>>same noise from the other wheel. I checked it today and sure enough it was
>>loose. I tightened it just an hour ago. I will know if the noise goes away
>>tomorrow.
>>
>>If the noise does go away does it mean the axle is OK? My question is they
>>had worked for more than 6 months. So the nuts have been tight, although
>>not quite enough. Because I had to turn about another 30 degree it makes
>>me wonder if something has worn and it takes 1/12 turn to tighten them
>>again.
>>
>>When I said loose it's not like you can turn it by hand. You have to turn
>>it by a wrench (1/2" drive 2 feet long bar). So I don't feel the splines
>>on the axle are damaged. The question in my mind is is it possible the
>>axle is going to break off. I know it is probably not very likely. But
>>does it ever happen to anyone to have a broken axle? Last time they were
>>loose I turned the nuts probably 1/12 turn. Now they were turned again
>>1/12 turn. Something must be wearing out inside or the axle is pulled so
>>hard and about to break off. Again this is probably not likely. But I am
>>concerned really.
>>
>>Thanks again David.
>>
>>MJ
>>
>>--- On Fri, 6/11/10, David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>From: David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal.net>
>>Subject: Re: Why my rear axle nuts got loose
>>To: "M. Jade" <tinho2010@YAHOO.COM>
>>Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 10:35 PM
>>
>>At 01:19 AM 6/12/2010, M. Jade wrote:
>>>My rear wheels have been making rumbling noise. According to my past
>>>experience I know it is the axle nuts that are probably loose. So I
>>>finally checked them today. Sure enough they are loose. I tightened them
>>>until I could not turn further. I do not have a torque wrench so I am
>>>sure I did not apply enough torque.
>>
>>Dear M. Jade,
>>
>>If your axle nuts aren't tight enough, the hub will slip on the axle
>>splines and damage both of them. It sounds as though this has already
>>happened and the hubs and axles may need to be replaced. It's necessary
>>to be sure that you have axle nuts with ten slots (rather than the older
>>ones with six). You must tighten them to 360 lb-ft / 500 Newton-meters
>>and then additionally tighten until the next slot lines up with the hole
>>for the cotter pin. The main risk is that the drive axles will no longer
>>be able to power the wheels reliably, or that the nut itself might
>>possibly fail in which case the wheel would depart from the vehicle.
>>
>>This is not something you can be casual about. If you cannot tighten them
>>properly yourself you must get someone to do it for you.
>>
>>Yours,
>>David
>>
>>
>>
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